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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    I'm not 100% certain what I'd do, but I know what I wouldn't do, which is to postpone the AGM and make public attacks on the candidates themselves. I would seek to distance the Trust from any harassment of the candidates by people from outside it. If the trustees had not done/done that, they could have set up a virtual meeting between themselves and the candidates, where they would have been able to express their displeasure at the candidates' actions and put the candidates at a disadvantage, which would give a lot more force to the trustees' arguments. If they had tried to come to an amicable compromise with the candidates before going to press, then they wouldn't have lost the moral high ground that they occupied at the start of this affair and allowed the candidates to occupy it. The trustees may have been defending their work, but they certainly weren't doing it in the best way they could.
     
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  2. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    You've been talking in ellipses quite a bit of late, pointing out that others have a WSR past and should shoulder responsibility. Why not just name those who you think should be blamed for past actions and explain why they are not fit to lead the WSR forward.
     
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  3. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Not wishing to offend but your profile suggests two years on NP. Some of us have been here a little longer and have seen not just the latest two years of warfare but other costly and damaging turmoil inflicting the WSR. The only financial winners have, so far, been lawyers.
    Regarding names, I believe many here know them, but I am not being tempted to contravene Forum rules by naming.
     
  4. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Part of the furniture

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    Thanks for your reply, I will agree with you on some points you make. I do try and sense check my emotions on a regular basis and I feel in the main I have only tried to use my experiences as examples of current behaviour to highlight Culture and how it needs to change so it’s safe for all to come and engage whatever their views, as opposed to just moaning. In addition my bad experiences are in the main with the PLC not the WSSRT with who I haven’t had a particular issue with (other than not acting when they should have done as a Shareholder in the PLC) until the deferring of the AGM recently.

    But let’s not be deflected on to my issues, they are not important to the WSR as a whole currently, me getting my ID Card back is only a stroke of somebodies pen and it will wait for now. Lets remain focused on the WSSRT AGM and the current Board. The question still sits out there: Are the current Board right or wrong to act as they have in stopping members stand for election? I do see the rationale for what has been said, but ultimately it comes down to, should the current Board stick to their own rules whatever and not decide to override their own articles however much they feel they are justified or is it right for them to decide the ends justifies the means and change the rules to suit?

    Regarding the recent HLF bid you mention, that was in early 2019 from memory and is now nearly over, it won’t be effected by the merging of the WSRA & WSSRT. The WSSRT Chairman in his press statement said it would and the WSSRT 10 being elected would stop all further grant funding. That has no basis in fact, the opposite is true.

    During the fund raising work I did all of the external funders and funding support bodies (around 12) I spoke to were very, very clear that funders will not fund the WSR at large amounts whilst there are two competing Charities. Therefore the merging of the WSRA & WSSRT also opens the door for funders to feel confident to give large funding amounts without risk of failure, competition or the funds being mis-directed.

    We narrowly avoided the issue once already as both the HPC bid with the WSRA & the HLF bid with the WSSRT were in fact very close to being competitive and crossed over each other’s remit. The WSSRT Chairman will recall that he and I discussed this at length at the start of the bid process in a pub next to Highbridge Station and we agreed how to keep them apart but stay mutually supportive, that worked and both bids were successful but we were told it was ok as a one off but not a sustainable position.

    I can of course give you the Funding Strategy document I wrote for the WSR at the time which sets the competition issues and how it would block all future large scale fund raising so there is evidence to back up what I say.

    It’s these important things which are being lost in the personalised attacks at the minute, the future direction whoever’s it is needs to be though through or the future costs in lost opportunities will be great. Whatever the outcome if the WSR is to go forward we all will only get one chance to get this right, the Covid bailout money has to be spent by 31/3/21 so it’s on its own after that and it has to be ready for that in a sustainable way with all pointing in the same direction and a management structure which is fit for purpose. Given this internal old guard war has continued for years now and has only intensified that’s a tough ask as I don’t see anybody giving up anytime soon and that’s why I get “too sensitive”.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  5. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    So enlighten those who haven't been around longer.

    I don't think having an opinion on who is to blame and why is against forum rules.
     
  6. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    So once again, its personalities, and I guess that to some, all it needs is for those persons to leave and things would settle down to how they were? Am I reading it right, But what if those troublesome personalities were doing so to highlight the failings and wrong doings, pointing out uncomfortable issues, that for some, are well, uncomfortable to have to face, such as the state of the PW etc, ? sometimes silencing trouble makers does not make the problem go away, until that day comes, and something goes badly wrong,, you didn't fix it, because in your eye, the problem was the person, not what they were saying, and now your deep in the sticky stuff, because your the one having to explain why.
     
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  7. D1002

    D1002 Part of the furniture

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    Forum Rules:

    7.4:
    1) A Contribution must not be defamatory of any person.
     
  8. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    So it depends whether the naming is defamatory of that person?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  9. D1002

    D1002 Part of the furniture

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    Sections 7.4 in its entirety:

    1. A Contribution must not:
      1. Be defamatory of any person.
      2. Be obscene, abusive, offensive, hateful or inflammatory.
      3. Promote sexually explicit material.
      4. Promote violence.
      5. Promote discrimination based on race, sex, religion, nationality, disability, sexual orientation or age.
      6. Infringe any copyright, database right or trade mark of any other person.
      7. Be likely to deceive any person.
      8. Breach any legal duty owed to a third party, such as a contractual duty or a duty of confidence.
      9. Promote any illegal activity.
      10. Be in contempt of court.
      11. Be threatening, abuse or invade another's privacy, or cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety.
      12. Be likely to harass, upset, embarrass, alarm or annoy any other person. Impersonate any person, or misrepresent your identity or affiliation with any person.
      13. Give the impression that the Contribution emanates from Flamethrower PLC, if this is not the case.
      14. Advocate, promote, incite any party to commit, or assist any unlawful or criminal act such as (by way of example only) copyright infringement or computer misuse.
      15. Contain a statement which you know or believe, or have reasonable grounds for believing, that members of the public to whom the statement is, or is to be, published are likely to understand as a direct or indirect encouragement or other inducement to the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism.
      16. Contain any advertising or promote any services or web links to other sites.

        Must be enough reasons there to deter people from blaming individuals about some alleged mistake or error!
     
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  10. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I don't think 2-16 would apply in this context.
     
  11. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    No 11 must be hard to avoid here :)
     
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  12. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    I know when or when not to, step up to, or over the mark - years of a long life teaches that.
    Like many on NP will have found it is easy to sail too close to the wind but so far I have managed to avoid a pointed letter from any Mod here. :D
     
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  13. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Hmm, not sure about this. There have been numerous "pro-plc" posters who come here as new members, spend a couple of evenings heavily trolling the forum, then go out all guns blazing and get swiftly banned. But where there have been genuinely thoughtful posts, from the likes of Mike and Tim and others, they have been engaged with in the same manner in which they were written, no shutting down, just putting across the argument.
     
  14. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    Surely it would be quicker, and within forum rules to name the directors who have not contributed to the current morass of problems.

    As soon as a name comes to mind, I will post that person's name publicly
     
  15. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    But I don't think you would be stepping over the mark.

    The reader (such as myself) is left trying to work out the inference and inferences, because they are indirect, are always likely to be misread. This is not some dictatorship where dissidents have to use coded language to talk about stuff.

    Fundamentally, I don't see the problem in saying what you mean.

    "I blame Bloggs for the problems of the WSR. The line has never recovered from the 'milk before the tea' incident in March 1973 when Bloggs decided to put the tea in first, thus splitting the WSR between the before and after factions. Bloggs should not have a leading role in the WSR because they are so divisive. "

    Who, what happened, what was the result.
     
  16. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator

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    in honour of 1664 pages of getting nowhere , more showstopping moments than Britains not got talent and over 33000 posts I propose a toast

    upload_2020-10-13_17-8-5.png
     
  17. D1002

    D1002 Part of the furniture

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    Maybe it’s because I’m a relic from a bygone age, but I would never name names on a public forum unless it was to praise someone for their actions/contributions to a particular cause.
    Regrettably, probably thanks to Social Media, the word ‘etiquette’ seems to disappearing from the English language.
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    God, whatever you do, don't bring up the "milk before tea" incident. They've got long memories in Somerset. (They also do things differently there, so what do we tea-drinking foreigners know about the correct way to make tea?)

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  19. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Yes, and I would agree with you. But... if you are saying that you think there are people who are unsuitable for a role because of their past actions then at least have the conviction of your opinions to name them. Otherwise it looks like a whispering campaign of nudges and winks. In for a penny, in for a pound if you think someone is unsuitable for a leading role on the WSR.
     
  20. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    As @RailWest points out, No 11 is hard to avoid if you name names, but anyway, what's the point? We all know that there are troublemakers, bullies and liars contributing to this mess and it really isn't hard, thanks to the internet, to get a rough idea who they are. Posters on NP who display an economy with the truth can be called out under their pseudonyms. Other contentious pieces in the public domain have come out under a joint name like "the Board" or someone has put their name to them. There really isn't any action that can be taken against the people whose names you seek anyway. You may not know who they are, but it's unlikely that their friends and colleagues don't. I consider it also very unlikely that one of the WSSRT ten has been a supporter of the existing trustees all along and was telling them all the secret plans until they were unmasked on Nat Pres.
     
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