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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Nat Pres stalwart

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    The answers, at least to 2 and 3 are obvious. We appear to have been too late to influence (1). An eternal shame on the WSR.

    Robin
     
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  2. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you missed the bus over the SDRT. What a very clever reply to a simple question.

    "An eternal shame on the WSR"?

    As you achieved nothing to assist the SDRT, might I suggest, pointedly, a rephrasing of your quote above?

    If you consider your numbering of my post for your 2 and 3 are "obvious" then as it isn't obvious to me, may I request your indulgence for further clarification, please.
     
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  3. Breva

    Breva Part of the furniture

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    The sniping resumes.
    Are the American elections over then?
     
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  4. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Are you suggesting some hitherto unsuspected causal linkage here? :Pompus:
     
  5. nanstallon

    nanstallon Well-Known Member

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    It matters very little whether you have a lease. The S&DRT has a lease but it didn't help them to stay at Washford.
     
  6. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    I think that you may be taking aim at the wrong person.

    Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk
     
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  7. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Well, obviously the WSR plc board, but many others in positions of influence have been complicit allegedly in my opinion who could have made a difference, but didn't.

    Make of that what you will.
     
  8. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

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    Are we talking about the US election or the situation in Somerset?
    Why is it I get the feeling the US election will get sorted first?
     
  9. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    I've now read belatedly an email from the SDRT of 20.02, and a lot of prominent people in the WSSRT including one who has resigned recently, and the WSRA, ought to feel guilty as to their shameful conduct over all this.

    The SDRT has been sacrificed at the altar of personal ambition and gain, and petty
    in fighting, and it's notional 'friends' and erstwhile supposed supporters have failed it.

    Shame on you all that I allude to. You know who you are.

    None of you are fit to hold any office in the WSR family as you have all walked on the other side whilst one of your family needed your help.
     
  10. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    I visited a post office very near the WSR just about when you posted. The local newspaper carried the headline "Pensioner charged with murdering wife", so, no signs of peace yet
     
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  11. Llwyngwern

    Llwyngwern Member

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    Sorry, but even by the standards of this thread equating murder charges, and the distress caused to families and friends, with WSR events is not well-judged
     
  12. 30854

    30854 Part of the furniture

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    Are you sure you're not being overly optimistic there Matt? With the conclusion of one of the more promising lulls in recent years, I'm now tending towards the view that there'll have been Nobel Prizes for work in Cold Fusion another for the study of Dark Matter, plus a solution to Fermat's last Theorem ..... and they'll still be at each others' throats as Minehead gradually vanishes beneath a rising sea level.
     
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Not certain that this was ever in doubt after the way that they had been treated. Whether their new home is permanent will, I guess, depend on what is possible where they are going, which could be quite a lot.
     
  14. malcolm imps

    malcolm imps Member

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    Yes, agreed.....even more so ! as Neil , gentleman Postmaster at the BL post Office died this week....RIP
     
  15. toplight

    toplight Member

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    It is true other groups should have backed the SDRT up more, but how much fighting back did the SDRT do themselves ? It may that it isn't public knowledge but it seems they largely just accepted it.

    Look at the ammunition they had:-

    1 Been there for 40+ years with a tidy well organised site that provided an extra attraction for the public
    2 Had a long lease already, signed just 2 years earlier
    3 A popular loco that was regularly used on WSR trains
    4 Public support on their side
    5 Had paid their rent as expected providing an income for the WSR
    6 Saved the WSR having to maintain the station themselves.
    7 They could have appealed to the Council owner of the land for support.
    etc etc

    I would have negotiated for a while and if that doesn't work then dig your heels in and tell em. "Get stuffed, we are staying put and not moving" . They could have contacted lawyers to get likely outcomes beforehand and perhaps even do it through them.

    What would the plc have then done ?, they might have escalated it further to get an eviction, but on the other hand they might have huffed and puffed for a while and then quietly backed down.

    None of the plc members own the asset so they don't stand to gain or lose personally either way, so would likely only take it so far. Plc members can resign or change at any time and new directors might feel differently. Even JJP wont be in the post forever, at some point he may decide to move on and a new chairman have a totally different view.

    Sometimes you can't let yourself be a pushover. What would Donald Trump do, would he just roll over and meekly accept it ? No way.
     
  16. Bikermike

    Bikermike Member

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    I would suggest that whatever Donald Trump is doing at this time would be an exact negative precedent...
     
  17. Keith Sims

    Keith Sims Member

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    Would you prefer to live with a landlord who called you "a cuckoo in the nest" and reneged on a long term agreement to overhaul your Loco or find a much more amenable one who shared your desire to preserve heritage and treat you with respect. Trump is NOT a good role model.
     
  18. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    With the benefit a little experience in instructing lawyers in commercial disputes, I suggest this misses three critical points.

    First, there is cost. Lawyers’ time costs money, and results are always uncertain. Second, there is distraction. All the time spent engaging in the legal process is time removed from something else. Third, there are relationships. Regardless of who “wins” a case, the costs of doing so may be disproportionate. We know that the plc’s “success” has cost the WSRs reputation dearly; we don’t know what would have been involved for the Trust in maintaining their position against a hostile landlord.

    All of these presume a robust legal case. We know that there are technicalities that undermine the Trust’s position should it go to law.

    The Trump approach might work given unlimited resources and funds. However, the low success rate of his cases suggests they’re more a form of bullying in an attempt to deter opponents; i for one as glad the Tryst have not followed that path.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    My personal view is that despite the short term pain, and loss, the S&DJRT are better away from the WSR,
    Having been lied about, and treated quite badly by the WSR PLC, there can be no trust in anything they say, if they can tear up a lease, they can do the same with a contract to overhaul a loco, I'm hoping that through the good offices of the MHR, and other bodies, a museum site can be found, especially if it includes the LSWR history also,
     
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  20. John Palmer

    John Palmer Member

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    No outsider has any basis for passing judgment on whether the S&DRT has proved to be a pushover until the outcome of the ongoing negotiations between it and the WSR plc is known.
    Much has been made of a legal defect in the 2018 Agreement concluded between the Trust and the plc with reference to its efficacy in extending the Trust's lease. Much less attention has been paid to the fact that the 2018 Agreement nonetheless created a binding legal contract between the Trust and the plc. The plc resiled from that contract by serving a Notice to Quit otherwise than in accordance with that contract's terms.

    In my post at https://www.national-preservation.c...eral-discussion.508987/page-1655#post-2609269 I invited anyone who considered that a breach of that contract had not taken place to explain why. That challenge remains unanswered, and until it is I shall not regard the Trust's legal position as having been undermined.

    I've also previously raised the possibility of the Trust adopting the 'Get stuffed' response advocated by @toplight. That may not be necessary if, in the course of the ongoing negotiations, the plc is prevailed upon to recognise that it served Notice to Quit when it had no right to do so under the terms of the 2018 Agreement, and that it should compensate the S&DRT appropriately in return for an agreement by the Trust to leave. But such a response is a shot that remains available in the Trust's locker, and one having the advantage to the Trust that it entails minimal legal expense unless the plc attempts to enforce its Notice through the courts – with full knowledge that such an attempt would be met with the defence that the plc had failed to observe its obligations under the 2018 Agreement.

    I await with interest the outcome of the discussions now taking place between the Trust and the plc. It's too soon to jump to conclusions about what that outcome will be.
     

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