West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Hope so. Will the new head of 'infrastructure engineering' get the loop lengthened through the bridge at Williton? I'm guessing it was'nt done is down to current lack of finances?

 

I received my programme for the Spring gala in the post yesterday, and couldn't help but notice the advert on the back page for an organisation calling itself Friends of the West Somerset Railway. I am a member of the WSRA, but I had never heard of this lot before, yet looking at their web site (FOWSR - Friends of West Somerset Railway) it would appear that they have been in existence since at least last November.
Is FoWSR something to do with the PLC?
Is the West Somerset Railway Association no longer recognised (by The Management) as a friend of the WSR?
Is FoWSR intended, by those who brought it into being, to supplant the WSRA as principal supporting organisation for the railway?
Why has it been thought necessary to create another support organisation for the WSR?

The advert's strap line "Ever wanted to be part of this Railway? Well now you can." seems to suggest (to the uninitiated) that the WSRA has never existed.

Can anyone cast light upon the situation?

Cheers,

 

Mick - as a WSRA member you will find much of the background to the current situation in the latest Journal. As a charity the WSRA is limited by law to the extent and type of financial support it can provide to others, such as WSR Plc. That hasn't prevented an investment in the railway of over £2M in the last few years. As for FoWSR, this is very much attached to the WSR Plc and it can be seen simply as direct income stream for the Plc. Interestingly, FoWSR have identified two projects for which they will raise funds; given these projects (new water tower at Lydeard, and a loco shed at Westridge) are presumably high on the Plc's list of "must-haves", the Plc could have just asked the WSRA to help fund them, as I know the WSRA could fund both, now, without delay. Likewise, a recent offer by WSRA to invest £60K by purchasing Plc-owned land at Station Farm (thus releasing funds for Plc) was turned down, for reasons, that to me are unfounded. Therefore, the answer to most of your questions, in my humble view, is "yes". It is of course up to individuals whether or not to hand over cash to FoWSR, but I'd want to be absolutely sure the money is used in the way outlined - and there is little information (yet) about constitution, financial arrangements and accountability. Perhaps someone from FoWSR will reply here to your questions, Mick.

Steve

 

Thanks for your prompt response Steve.
Where, in your opinion, might this unfortunate development place the WSRA in the long term?
For my part, I shall be continuing my support of the WSRA while giving FoWSR the cold shoulder.

 

Which, if any, of the two organisations (WSRA and FoWSR) allows Gift Aid to be collected? If I am donating to a railway, I certainly like to do so in a way that ensures Mr Osbourne plays his part! It would seem a bit of an own goal to me to create an organisation with the express aim of collecting donations without that organisation being able to collect an extra 25% from the chancellor where permissible. The FoWSR website seem vague on the matter - indeed, I can't even see how I donate!

Tom

 

Whilst the WSRA have, I'm told, every intention of continuing to be the (whole) railway's "Greatest Supporter", the extent to which it can support the operating company WSR Plc is very much down to the desire of the latter to work with the WSRA.

Good. I hope many WSRA members choose to take their time to see how things develop.

Steve

 

The WSRA is a charity and does operate the Gift Aid scheme. FoWSR is not a charity.

Steve

 

This is the FoWSR's (rather sycophantic IMHO) mission statement as culled from their web site: -
"The aim of Friends of West Somerset Railway (FoWSR) is to support all aspects of the West Somerset Railway plc. FoWSR specifically exclude any action by its members to oppose or usurp the West Somerset Railway plc's position with regards to operating any or all railway services on the line."
Could that second sentence be directed at the WSRA?

To answer Tom's query, there's no mention of FoWSR having charitable status as yet, so any donations to them (which can be made via card or PayPal) would not be eligible for Gift Aid.

 

Who knows! It does make for an incredibly muddled message which tends to suggest the main purpose of FoWSR is not to carry out any action that no other supporting organisation has never carried out. Seems a pointless statement. Perhaps FoWSR can explain here, with examples?

Steve

 

Thanks Steve. All sounds slightly odd!

Tom

 

I think Gift Aid rules have changed and provided the the FoWSR have, effectively, charitable aims (which I assume is the case if the WSR Plc is a not-for-profit organisation) then I think they probably could claim Gift Aid if they were so inclined. That's my understanding but I'm sure others will know for sure.

 

I'm getting the impression that the WSR is going the same way the the Bluebell went a few years ago; an elective autocracy run by a group of cronies. A great shame, but not a lot can be done about it.

Regards

 

Where I'm a bit confused is in how these bodies interact (and we are getting back to the previous thread on funding, structures, democracy etc).

In my mind, you need four distinct functions, which different railways sometimes combine in one body, or sometimes split into two or more bodies:

• 
  [1]An organisation to run the trains
  [2]An organisation to own the assets
  [3]An organisation to raise funds, generally for charitable objectives (thus making use of the Gift Aid available)
  [4]A membership organisation to add democratic oversight of the objectives of the other three bodies

I'm struggling to see how the WSRA and FoWSR fit. Clearly WSR plc meets function 1 (and 2?); and I assumed the WSRA met functions 3 and 4. But now it looks like FoWSR also are trying to combine functions 3 and 4 - they are a membership organisation, and a fund raising organisation. So that just looks like a clear structural conflict and unnecessary complexity. Or am I missing something?

Tom

 

Not sure the WSR Plc is a "not-for-profit" organisation. Is there a formal declaration of that status?

Steve

 

The situation at the WSR has never been based entirely on those functions. When the line was first reopened it was planned as a private railway offering a public service between Taunton and Minehead. Thus the WSR Company (now the WSR Plc) was created to fulfil the formal role of railway operating authority. The idea of a "preserved railway" was a secondary role, albeit generating funds during the summer by way of a steam service between Minehead and Watchet. Of course history tells us that things did not work out as planned and the public service gradually faded due to the inability to gain access to Taunton (remember the NUR blacking the WSR for so many years?!) and the steam/heritage service became the main purpose of the railway. But the original relationship remained.

Looking at your four functions:

1 Yes the WSR Plc is the operating authority
2 The WSR Plc own some of the assets, other groups own some. Most of the line is leased by WSR Plc. The WSRA own the land and railways at Norton Triangle, the WSR Plc own small pockets of land (at Norton and Bishops Lydeard).
3 The WSRA fulfils a supporting role providing funds for appropriate purposes. It is a charity, the trustees are responsible to the WSRA's membership. There is no formal relationship between the WSR Plc and the WSRA (never has been). Volunteers for the Railway are seen as "staff" by WSR Plc and do not have to belong to any supporting organisation although many do.
4 No WSR-related membership organisation has any oversight (or rights) whatsoever on any other WSR organisation. Each is essentially a "standalone" organisation. That includes the WSR Plc which is answerable only to its shareholders.

The WSRA is the longstanding main supporter of the Plc (they were both formed in the early 1970s); the FoWSR can be seen simply as a fundraising body created by and managed by the WSR Plc.

Hope this helps!

Steve

 

I think that the second sentence that I quoted from the FoWSR mission statement is key to its existence.

"FoWSR specifically exclude any action by its members to oppose or usurp the West Somerset Railway plc's position with regards to operating any or all railway services on the line."

Not only does this appear to bar potential members from any stance other than strict and unquestioning obedience to the party line, it also begs the question does FoWSR now exist because the plc is becoming paranoid, seeing or (rather more likely) imagining that the WSRA opposes or seeks to usurp its position?

 

You could be forgiven entirely for raising the above question, Mick!

Remember the Chairman of the WSR Plc has, for the last two years or so, been championing his idea of "one railway". I liked the idea of all WSR organisations working together for the WSR to a plan discussed and agreed by all WSR organisations; but I'm not keen on a plan where "one railway" means "my railway". FoWSR will of course do the Plc's bidding as it is merely a Plc add-on. Some might think that is a good thing and the way forward. It's not for insignificant oinks like me to tell people how to spend their money in support of the WSR.

Steve

 

It is significant that FoWSR has the WSR plc GM on its committee, not long after the plc decided that it no longer required said GM to be a trustee of the WSRA. It does look like the plc is trying to sideline the WSRA in favour of its own alternative organisation. Otherwise why advertise FoWSR in the gala program?

Dave

 

Thanks Steve. I take it (from the answers here and elsewhere) that the WSRA doesn't own any shares (or at least, not any significant shareholdoing) in WSR plc?

Despite Orion's perpetual gloominess about life in Sussex, I am beginning to think that maybe we have life quite rosy when I try to understand how other railway's structure themselves!

Tom

 

I wonder if we will soon need a WSR GeekFinderGeneral...?