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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Downline

    Downline New Member

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    I would say that we don't need to know why it is being advertised now.

    Whilst I would like to see updates on the progress of the crossing, I wouldn't expect the WSR Plc to tell us when every Tom, Dick and Harry has started on the project, what they did, when they finished, and the reason why. That's entering personal information territory, and not something members of National Preservation have a given right to be informed on. Those that think they do need to reassess there expectations.
     
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  2. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    This is a construction job. It will need the right experience and qualifications. The right applicant probably couldn't tell a 14xx from a P2, but can do all the compliance stuff, look good in hi-viz and shout at contractors. This is job that happens to be on the WSR, not a WSR job.
     
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  3. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    That is a very good point.
    On this occasion I’m not sure what the issue is, getting someone suitably qualified to run the project is a good idea and a sign the WSR are trying to do it properly.

    There are many things the railway has got wrong over the years but I don’t think this is one of them.
     
  4. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think the issue raised is the timing, that given all the delays to the crossing replacement, and that it's supposed to be *finally* finished by June, it's surprisingly late to be advertising, unless a previous candidate has pulled out.
     
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  5. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    But the position is site manager, they are not required until just before the work starts, that is quite normal in the construction industry. You certainly do not want them on the pay role longer than is necessary.

    If on the other hand the WSR were employing a project manager, I would think differently, but the fact is they are not.
     
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  6. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    Bear in mind this is a construction job, the previous incumbent won't necessarily be thinking in railway terms.

    If, eg Hinckley Point has some plum jobs going then the previous incumbent could well follow the money. Construction is a project-based industry, and you follow the money. Certainly in my slice of the world (central London), the market is picking up, and this tends to ripple out.
     
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  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    In which case, I’d have thought (even with IR35 changes biting) that hiring on a contract role would make more sense. Odder still and odder.


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  8. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    I read it as that is what they are doing. Maybe it could of been worded better but temporary to me indicates a fixed term contract.
     
  9. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Ok - I was thinking more of going through an agency (and, yes, I'm aware of £££) than directly engaging.
     
  10. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    As usual on Nat Pres, the answer is given to a different question to that asked. No-one was suggesting the WSR "tell us when every Tom, Dick and Harry has started on the project, what they did, when they finished, and the reason why." What was pointed out was that it's a bit bloody late to be advertising for a site manager, given how advanced the project is. It was also pointed out that, though there could be a reason for this, none was given. Now, if something unusual happens, and it is not usual for a site manager's position to be advertised at such a late stage, people tend to wonder why it has occurred, even in the world outside the WSR. Nor is it usual to try to save money by advertising for a vacant post at the last minute. What is usually done is to have someone lined up and then have them start when they are needed. It really doesn't take a genius to see that if a post is advertised as late as this one, then it is going to look like someone has cocked up somewhere, again, even in the world outside the WSR, and that, if you want to dispel that impression, then it might be an idea to offer some reason. Again, this is what normally happens. The fact that there are "very few job ads which explain why the position has become available" is because there are very few occasions when a post has to be advertised late, not because very few people choose to explain why they want someone for an immediate start. Most people plan ahead. It appears that the WSR doesn't and, if they don't like that appearance, they should do something about it.
     
  11. Downline

    Downline New Member

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    I'm still struggling to understand why you, and other members of National Preservation, feel they have the right and need to know why a job role has cropped up at the last minute. Its been pointed out construction workers follow projects and money, and construction jobs do crop up at the last minute. So if there was someone lined up and they have chosen at the last minute they have a better offer, do the WSR Plc need to explain this to anyone, especially those who shout and scream about it on the internet? Maybe all the construction companies currently advertising roles for a site manager to start urgently should be dragged into an enquiry by members of national preservation?

    Hopefully all this pointless discussion does some good and highlights the job role to someone who is qualified and looking for work in the not to distant future.
     
  12. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    Really?
    In my world, labour and semi-skilled trades will naff off up the road for £5/hour. Site managers will go for a bit more that.
    A site supervisor could well be engaged this late, or equally someone who doesn't care about trains took the job, and now has a better-paid job.
     
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  13. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Well-Known Member

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    Kilmersdon did shuttles to Dunster I believe with the S&DJR coach, I may be wrong though. I can't remember if it was to Dunster or just to the signal outside of Minehead.
     
  14. Downline

    Downline New Member

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    I understand that at one point the salaries being offered within the Hinkley Point C site were a reasonable amount higher than construction companies operating in Somerset, Bristol etc. If you can have a few more quid an hour, and have a longer run of work, I'm sure it would tempt anyone.
     
  15. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    I rode in one such shuttle during the Spring Gala in 2016. IIRC it was advertised originally as going to DR and back, but in the event it only ran within MD 'station limits'.
     
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  16. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I have neither “right” nor “need” to know, but do have curiosity. Where there is a project that is so critical to the future of the railway, it is to say the least surprising to find that a vital role is vacant at this point.

    I also find it interesting to see such a vehement response to the raising of questions.

    All projects hit problems, I was quite prepared to believe that this is one of those problems. But I do find that my suspicions rise on seeing reactions like yours.


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  17. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    But we've been left with the impression that the camera was cut off because there was a desire not to have people making distracting, pointless reports on safety pseudo-issues they saw while watching the work; but people can't see anything if there's no work going on to be seen. So it seems a reasonable conclusion that work has already started. And it's not a navvy to lift things they are hiring, which could well be done the day before they're needed, it's the "Site Manager"; seems a bit of a significant job to be trying to hire in at the last moment. Although it's not clear exactly what the Site Manager will be doing; the contractor, Messrs Amey, will presumably have their own boss there; so maybe the Site Manager will mostly just be doing liaison with the PLC, or in charge of any WSR staff/volunteers who are involved.

    It's all probably just the usual WSR tempest in a teapot, whipped up to a froth by the interaction between the tide of distrust, and the opposing wind of aggressive defensiveness of WSR supporters. But, as unfortunately too usual, who knows what's really going on. (Cue the seemingly obligatory 'you've no need to need to know the details, it's not your business'.)

    Noel
     
  18. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    I'm still struggling to understand how you can consistently miss the point, unless you are doing so deliberately. I would have thought it is pretty obvious that it is not that we think we have the right to know anything, we are just pointing out that the lack of an explanation, whatever that may be, looks bad, and we don't want the WSR to look bad. What looks bad to one person will also look bad to others, unless they deliberately aren't looking because they don't want to see, and that in an organisation that, although it doesn't wish to be in that position, has to rely on persuading other people to give it really quite large amounts of money, is not a good thing.
    In any case, as a shareholder and thus a part owner of the company, I do have the right to know, or at least to ask.
     
  19. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Fair comment, although I would say that what the WSR should be getting is someone who is experienced and used to slotting in and moving from site to site and job to job, that’s the nature of the construction industry.

    I used to be quite involved in contract work with quite a few building companies who are national names.

    Part of my work was to visit site managers and liaise with them about the sites particular needs. After a while it became quite easy to obtain work (until the housing market crashed), the reason being it was the same few old faces moving site to site, and often company to company, my point being they are used to it and it’s quite normal.

    Although there are variations and unique aspects to each specific job the skill set required remains the same, as do the principles of site management, making it possible to pick up the ropes in a short time for someone experienced and used to fixed term/temporary working, the ability to do so being part of their skill set.
     
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  20. Downline

    Downline New Member

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    I completely agree on your first two sentences, it would be interesting to know why the role is vacant at this, but we don't have the right to know, nor should anyone immediately come onto this forum to share there negative feelings towards the vacancy immediately when it is released. The WSR have pulled some proper own goals in recent years, but there are others on here who immediately go in for the kill the minute a snippet of gossip is available, which is quite pathetic.

    Just to note, I don't know, nor have any association with the WSR or the crossing project, just someone who visits the railway and considers there are more than the WSR side, and the Nat Pres side of events. But if you feel my comments raise that much suspicion, I suppose I could continue with them for a bit of fun (especially if others are referring to me as a die hard WSR Supporter) ... :)
     

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