If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    the NYMR are currently charging £38-£40 for a return trip over a similar length railway and people in general are willing to pay that. It has long been argued that their competition is not other heritage railways but other local family attractions, such as Flamingoland and the fares charged are equivalent to a family day out there. Flamingoland have reduced their 2021 pay on the day price from £47 to £41 and that includes children over 4, so you can see that the NYMR is competitive in this respect. Unfortunately, I can't find any similar attractions in Somerset that come near to this and the WSR's competition seems to be far cheaper, which doesn't help them.
    I would disagree with the first part of your statement. The problem was that the WSR inherited a railway that was not worn out and in basically good condition and needed little in the way of infrastructure improvement for many years and that need to improve has not been planned for and has now come home to haunt them. That is why they have been able to get away with ticket prices as low as they were.
     
    jnc, keith6233 and ross like this.
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    11,930
    Likes Received:
    10,088
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Some railways do benefit significantly from secondary spend but it isn't necessarily an automatic win. If you have a train of (say) 250 passengers arriving at your terminal station it will be a big shop or buffet that can accommodate even twenty percent of those passengers so your secondary spend is going to be limited to a relatively small number of people and the rest will go elsewhere and not spend a penny on the railway. If your train load of passengers is only (say) fifty people you stand more chance of them each spending something on the railway. For this reason, secondary spend is a lot more limited on some railways compared with others. Secondary spend also requires staff to service it and that frequently means paid staff so it can almost become self defeating to increase your supporting floorspace to cater for heavy demand in short bursts when trains arrive.
     
    ross likes this.
  3. bluetrain

    bluetrain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    1,460
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wiltshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    With hindsight, I suspect that the WSR made a major error in having such a complete clear-out of the PLC Board and senior managers in 2018/9. Much corporate memory and expertise may have been lost. The new Board appears to have been carefully selected to provide a compact group of like-minded people, appearing to lack breadth and diversity. Such a body will likely make quick decisions but be prone to blind spots.

    During its first 20 years as a preserved line, the WSR made do with small and medium motive power, keeping within the inherited "blue route" axle-weight restriction of 17.6 tons. There was a major infrastructure upgrade in the mid 1990s to allow the heaviest locomotives to operate. But in later years, the WSR seems to have found it difficult to maintain the enhanced standards, with extra track repairs needed before the visit of Flying Scotsman in 2017.
     
    ghost, jnc and Monkey Magic like this.
  4. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,826
    Likes Received:
    3,871
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I don't think it is the case that the whole line has suddenly reached the end of its rails' working life, but that there was a sufficient mileage of track that was inherited in good condition that now needs replacement to cause a major headache. That is not to say, of course that, it wasn't always obvious that would happen, especially as the visit of the Flying Scotsman must have occasioned a fairly thorough survey of the track condition. Perhaps warning bells were sounded and ignored.
     
  5. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,162
    Hasn't one ex-Board-member muttered on here about sounding warnings that were ignored? And hasn't it been charateristic of the PLC management in the last few years to focus on irrelevancies instead of important issues?
     
    ghost, johnofwessex, jnc and 2 others like this.
  6. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,222
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    The failures of the WSR, are not just recent, they can be traced back several years, Ignoring problems does not make them go away, they just grow bigger, until they become to big to ignore. Isn't that what has happened over the years, Recent problems has only made the problems even more visible, as shown by the how many pages is it now , on this web site, and sitting encased in your Ivory tower, or bunker, fingers in ears, saying LA LA, We can't hear you, doesn't work, nor does sitting in the reflected glow of sycophants warm praise, Clearly, the whole WSR is not viable at the moment, costs out strip income, and you can only get out the begging bowl so may times, Splitting the followers and supporters into opposing camps of Us and them, may ensure you keep your behinds in the seats of power, but it does not lead to a good future for any railway, as strife does effect how others see your railway, So What needs to be done, ?
    What might be the most profitable section of line, ? can you only operate over that section, to ensure in the future there will still be a railway? as opposed to operating the full line, could sections be mothballed,? for instance, once Seaward way Level crossing is in use, does it make sence to only operate to Watchet, and install a loop just beyond Watchet to enable the loco to run round, after pulling its train clear of the platform, it doesn't even need to be signalled, operated by the loco crew, the rest of the line can then be mothballed, until revenue builds up to re open in stages.
     
  7. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,802
    Likes Received:
    7,438
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    Looking at this from another angle, as has been discussed in the past it is not beyond the grounds of probability that in the (perhaps nearer than one would like or predict) future the line east of Watchet may be severed by a collapse of the cliff. Trains could run from BL to WL, run-round and go back using the existing signalling facilities - I doubt anyone would bother about serving Doniford under such circumstances. Trains coming from MD however would be a different situation, as the choices would be :-
    • run-round at BA and return, effectively abandoning the stretch from BA to WT
    • top&tail working to WT - requires extra locos and crew etc
    • provide a new loop for run-round purposes at either WD or WT.
    Although you might be able to adapt WD to provide such as loop, it's not really going to be much of a destination unlike WT. So IMHO providing a loop (for run-round purposes as opposed to passing-loop) at the east end of WT would be useful both in the short term and as future-proofing in the longer term. Bot of course a loop will require two points (expensive) and ongoing maintenance costs, which in a time of obvious financial crisis may be hard to justify to the accountants.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 26, 2021
  8. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Out of curiosity, there used to be a loop at Watchet alongside the platform line. Is the land there still available to reinstate the loop where it used to be?

    Steve B
     
  9. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,484
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Yes, but it’s now a car park for visitors to the town.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  10. Steve B

    Steve B Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2008
    Messages:
    2,069
    Likes Received:
    1,502
    Location:
    Shropshire
    Ah, thank you, I had wondered.

    Steve B
     
  11. aldfort

    aldfort Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2009
    Messages:
    1,923
    Likes Received:
    4,237
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Cardiff
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Oddly I am here again. I see a raft of ideas being put forward amid the criticism of the current encumbents.
    I'll try once more and then I'll shut up on the subject. Those who wish to bring their expertise to the aid of the line need to make that willingness known to the current directors, either of the support charities or of the WSR plc. (Not via NP - just drop one of us a line by e-mail.)
    I am still frimly of the belief that the railway, for all manner of resons, will continue to need charitable funding for the foreseeable future. I don't think that's true of just the WSR either as it happens. ...but those are my thoughts, your views may differ and that difference is essential to good decison making, always assuming you are prepared to do more than just talk about it.
    I also fully accept that one or two contributors to this thread have been actively engaged in the past and have, for whatever reason, decided not to sustain that engagement. All I can say is , well done, at least you tried. ... but if was actually easy then everybody would be doing it! ;)

    Ok I'm going back to the fundraising now. I'll pop in again eventually.
     
  12. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,802
    Likes Received:
    7,438
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    Most of the 'loop' was actually at the WN end of the platform and extended over Govier's crossing. I was thinking - if it were at all possible - of using land on the Up side of the line east of the crossing, where at least part of the formation is/was still side enough for 2 tracks, but not sure just how long a loop could be achieved without extensive excavation at the WN end.
     
    Steve B and 35B like this.
  13. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,064
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Given that the HQ is at Minehead - population 12,000 plus visitors - Minehead to Williton makes far more sense than Lydeard to Williton as a temporary 'row back' on the line. Let's not pretend that the main line connection (for access to Minehead) is a big earner. A signalling tweak might be needed at Williton for the run around but not impossible.

    I really do think that this 'fund raising to run the railway' campaign will not be the solution. Try something more modest on the line for a while and do it from Minehead given the crossing upgrade.
     
  14. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,484
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    On many lines, I'd agree. The problem here is that the traffic is predominantly reported to be from the BL end, where access is relatively straightforward from the M5.
     
  15. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    12,172
    Likes Received:
    11,493
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Count me among those who always assumed MD to be the main point of origin. BL, eh? That certainly throws a different light on things.
     
    Wenlock likes this.
  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    21,064
    Likes Received:
    20,773
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Maybe so but Taunton to Lydeard is about 20 minutes by car and Taunton to Williton about 30. Can't see that as a deal breaker for visitors. This is when the WSR needs to get out its detailed customer data on exactly which journeys are made and when to know how to maximise income.
     
  17. granmaree

    granmaree Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2015
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    497
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Apart from'walk-ups', mostly from Butlins and a few local shareholders that travel regularly, passengers have to factor in the extra cost of all day parking in Minehead on top of the extra travel to and from the Taunton end. Not many know the local streets and parking on these for free is very rare.
     
  18. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2011
    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    993
    Location:
    South Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    That means 10 minutes to do Lydeard to Williton, which is 10 miles. An average of 60 mph! Good luck with that on the A358!
     
  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,484
    Likes Received:
    23,713
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I agree on the importance of analysis. Others have commented on the time it takes to drive along the A358; I'll just add that the difference between a parkway station close to the M5, and driving the extra 20 minutes to Williton station or 35 minutes to Minehead (both times taken from Google and fit with my memories of the road), plus finding parking at stations not targetted at drivers, is more likely than you allow to be a deal breaker - not an "I won't do that" but a tipping point where time, cost and hassle become too much.
     
  20. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,826
    Likes Received:
    3,871
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Google gives 15 mins M5 to BL and 33 mins M5 to Williton. Still not a deal breaker, though.
    That's only if you regard every minute spent in the car on the way there as time wasted. If you go from the M5 to Williton using the A39, it doesn't take any longer than the A358 route and you get to see a bit of the Quantocks. Even if that extra 20 mins is a deal breaker for some, is enough to warrant the expense of using the track between BL and Williton?
     

Share This Page