If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,733
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm delighted at the feedback, and genuinely regard the financial performance reported as good news. However, the problem that exercise mine and I suspect other minds is not that of "conservatism" vs "gung hoism", but the difficulty in interpreting the figures that do emerge in real cash terms. In the release you quote, we see an increase in fares income of £35k linked to a profitability swing of £105k - suggesting much more going on under the surface than is immediately obvious.

    Similarly, and casting minds back to 2020 and before, we've seen year end results subject to significant swings not because of underlying performance but because of accounting adjustments - of which the liability for 53808 is just the most prominent. As profitability of any except perhaps the smallest business depends heavily on the treatment of fixed costs, I'm not convinced that running at a loss in the special circumstances of 2020 was necessarily a bad thing in business terms - depending on the effect on cashflow. In the context of a business in which underlying business performance has been clouded by accounting treatments, I trust you will pardon me for a certain scepticism about the assertions about loss making - especially given the evidence you cite of over performance against forecasts.
     
    ross, jnc and Monkey Magic like this.
  2. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    6,845
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Am I reading this right.

    Profit of £2,524 (better than expectations).

    but of that profit includes the income of £25,995 from the Seaward Way Crossing work (effectively a one off payment). So without the Seaward Way Crossing work the line would have operated at a loss? (And of course, if Seaward Way had not been messed up by the PLC board then fare income would of course have been higher).

    Fare income of £80,301 sounds good but what was the fare income of June 2019? As a point of comparison the Ffestiniog made 85% of its June 2019 income in June 2021.

    A profit of £2524 in June is good, but what were the profit/loss figures from Feb 2020-May 2021?

    It is worrying that on the shoulder of the peak season they were budgeting a loss. That does not inspire confidence in the financial viability of the company.
     
  3. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    8,068
    Likes Received:
    5,165
    The quote says that the work has been particularly important. That does suggest that it has been completed.
     
  4. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    3,704
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    It should be expected that there would be good loadings at present, after all it is the main holiday season.
    I assume that the bank will be watching carefully. Anyway they are soldiering on and it would appear that the volunteers are making folk welcome.
    They seem to have sidelined would be troublemakers. :D
     
  5. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    The Potteries
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Would that be boiler work? ;)
     
  6. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Or perhaps carriage electrics?
     
  7. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2008
    Messages:
    3,906
    Likes Received:
    3,704
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    South Hams
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Due handicap at present I am typing with one hand only - and its not the best hand! ;)
     
    35B and staffordian like this.
  8. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    979
    Likes Received:
    1,470
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Sorry, I hope you know it was only gentle teasing and we weren't intending to be rude or disrespectful!
     
    Greenway likes this.
  9. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    The Potteries
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    B3tter than my usual at5mpts with noth hands :)
     
  10. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2012
    Messages:
    1,501
    Likes Received:
    2,134
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    The Potteries
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    +1
     
    Greenway likes this.
  11. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,803
    Likes Received:
    7,442
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    Maybe you need a 'hands free' option ? :)
     
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    17,609
    Likes Received:
    11,223
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    If you want the Hans free option, try the Brexit thread :)
     
  13. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2017
    Messages:
    1,002
    Likes Received:
    2,477
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Titfield
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Is that linked to the Dutch Electrician's Guild, whose motto is "Many Hans make lights work"
     
    martin1656 and Hampshire Unit like this.
  14. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    3,498
    Likes Received:
    6,845
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I know a number of people who use dragon voice recognition software and swear by it (rather than at it).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon_NaturallySpeaking

    Can someone tell me if my maths are wrong and if my numbers are out of whack. Because I am looking at this and I think I must have made a mistake somewhere.

    Fare income for June = 80,301
    30 days in June = 2676.21 per day

    Now give or take singles, pairs, people going for the luxury option and the various permutations and combinations. 2676.21 = 42.8 family tickets per day @62.50

    I think family tickets give you the most number of people for the least amount of money so assuming that, it would mean about 171 people travelling on average per day.

    3 trains per day = 57 people per train.

    Are those good passenger numbers?
     
  15. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    10,440
    Likes Received:
    17,941
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I suspect this is probably where you've gone wrong, I don't think the WSR operated every day in June. Even in August they're not operating Mondays and Fridays.
     
    Monkey Magic likes this.
  16. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    IIRC June was a two train service on about 20 days, possibly fewer - but that is from memory.
     
    Monkey Magic likes this.
  17. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,498
    Likes Received:
    5,455
    That’s correct, the WSR haven’t and are not running 7 days a week at all this year. No operations on Mondays with the exception of the Summer bank holiday & Dec 27th.
     
  18. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    25,493
    Likes Received:
    23,733
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Setting aside the comments by @flying scotsman123 about the basis for the average, I note observations on here of less than full trains, and the comment in the WSR's statement about "some" trains being full. That suggests that loadings are a bit variable, with some trains very full and others not.

    Or, judging by many conversations on here, precisely as has been the case for years.
     
    ross and Monkey Magic like this.
  19. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    7,498
    Likes Received:
    5,455
    I’ve just looked it up using the way back machine web archive and it shows -
    6 operating days in May
    16 days in June
    20 days in July
     
    Monkey Magic likes this.
  20. bluetrain

    bluetrain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    1,326
    Likes Received:
    1,460
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wiltshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    In the last "normal" year of 2019, the WSR timetable showed 4 or 5 full-line return workings on most days from April to October, rising to 7 return workings on some days in August. In June 2021, it was running only 2 return trips (BL to WT & BA) on selected days. So even if trains were well patronised, the passenger numbers are unlikely to have exceeded 50% of the 2019 numbers. However, only a single train-set & engine in steam was needed to operate the 2 return services, so there will have been a significant cost saving from the 2 trains/ engines (or 2 trains/ engines + DMU) needed in 2019.
     
    Monkey Magic likes this.

Share This Page