West Somerset Railway General Discussion

What then might volunteers be best placed to do?

The 'MK1 Central Organisation' can then do the rest

 

Ooh I've missed all the fun today on discussion about restoring Mk1s...... Cos I've been busy restoring Mk1s...

A brief thought on the prices front - railways that could probably afford this service probably have very well equipped C+W set ups, and those that don't probably couldn't afford to send their carriages away for restoration.

Personally I'm not sure how I'd feel about either working on carriages that then disappear off to another railway never to be seen again or having carriages arrive restored but not by us, they may not be done "quite" the way we like them, or when it comes to maintenance we won't know the coach inside out like we would otherwise.

On the other hand we must be one of the most efficient C+W workshops on a heritage railway yet despite that we still can't keep up with the extra demand for carriages for Broadway.

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It looks like you've answered your own question!

 

All valid points about Mk1s

 

It seems a diesel will be employed too but I don't have any details (yet). Sorry.

Steve

 

The engineering staff and volunteers at MD and WN have 9351 to rebuild, 6695 to finish and Odney Manor to reassemble. I can't see any realistic prospect of any of 4561, 7821 or 4110 getting significant progress in the next 3 years given the size of the labour force, even given the (much needed) consolidation of the engineering functions. As a volunteer restoring 6024, I do understand the issues of how long things take.

Is it not the case that at least three locomotives that have run recently and currently on the WSR are "owned" by groups that are spin offs from the railway? Dinmore Manor group, 5542 and (the contentious one) 4160.

Why not think of "spinning off" 4561 to 5542 if some suitable finance can be sorted, ditto 7821 to the Dinmore group, and then tackle 4110 in house. Putting some cash out this way could produce results in a sensible time frame. I would envisage leasing the loco to the group, with some cash and then hiring back for an agreed (cheaper) rate for x days per year for a number of years, but the group would be able to hire out elsewhere at other times.

Those groups may not be interested or the finances may not work, but it seems to me that taking towards 20 years to rebuild a loco is not reasonable, or cost effective.

Rob

 

Thank you

 

Very interesting, but to me unlikely to work as who will want to pay to take on an engine you don't own and then spend money on it and rent it back to the owners at a reduced price which means there will be less money in the leasers bank account to pay for the next 10 year overhaul, so they will have to raise more money to get this engine back working again for the next ticket against been able to get the full rent for it. I think this will be a non starter.

 

I think the boat has been missed with the DMF, who already have secondary projects (28XXs that the WSR don't seem to want) on the go. The 5542 group might be a possibility for 4561, but didn't they move from the WSR because their engine was not seen to be suitable for peak services on the WSR? It hardly seems like they would want to take on an even less suitable (less water capacity) engine

 

Right, as normal I've been away slaving over a hot loco while you chaps have been chatting.
Anyway a few points.
1) Thanks to Robin for reporting on one of the many matters we chatted about.
2) WSRA decisions about locomotives will be guided by WSRA members by consultation. So I'd advise all members to try to attend the AGM. We do now have a clearer picture of the work needed to complete 4561 and a very clear understanding of some of the legacy issues that the current trustees inherited. Thanks must go in part to Jeff Price for this. I don't intend to discuss this on a public forum for a variety of reasons but do see my comment about attending the AGM.
3) Let's consider this question of 4561 finding work on the WSR. A few facts (a) we seem to run a 6 coach train most days, 6 coaches is well within the capability of 4561 on our line. I asked a man who knows absolutely about this and was around the last time 4561 ran. (b) as Michael has pointed out we don't know the future, how do we know we'll need to run more than 5 coach trains 3 years from now?
4) While I'd love the WSR to be a business it's not. Sorry to say that but it only works because it receives literally £ millions of "free" work by volunteers every year. The board is made up of volunteers. So I'm afraid that the 1970's spirit is exactly what's needed, people need to give freely of their time, work collaboratively and dare to dream. If we want to preserve steam then we've all got to work at it, get lined up behind a "one railway" plan and work to find the funding to keep steam alive on our railway. Passenger receipts alone are unlikely to be enough. What I do agree with is that we must have the very best people we can get in the voluntary and the few paid positions on the railway.

 

There seems to be a belief that all MK1s are the same. Each works did its own thing. One instance is the handrails to the guards door are continuous on some, you can slide your hands down, but on Derby built examples they are two separate handrails. There are many other detail differences which make rebuilding a bespoke activity.

I see no benefit in having a central organisation

 

Quite apart from the cost of transporting coaches around the country.

 

Indeed, standard Mk1 coaches are anything but standard. Talk to anyone involved and they'll all come up with something different that's, err, different!

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About 3 years ago I came up to visit the folks, and me and the old man had a little trip up to Highley, on the Blood and Custard rake of Mk1s we noticed some of them have flush fitted windows, and others have frames, we wondered why and asked the question, unfortunately no body at the time could tell us! When you think of how many were built and by how many different works I can imagine there are many differences! I'm sure it was on the SVR a door was going to be replaced from one 'in stock' only when offered up the hinges and locks were found to be in different positions!

 

West Somerset Railway - Then and Now

Minehead platform, looking towards North Hill 1977 and 2017.

What a difference 40 years make! 6412 waits with a small train at a weedy platform that was going to deteriorate further before it improved. The 'running-in' board is a significant feature of this end of the platform and a useful reference point along with the canopy end and the goods shed. Those wagon wheels are still there but swamped by the new occupants of the flower bed. Perhaps the winter of 2017/18 needs to see some hard pruning to ensure that the name doesn't disappear entirely!

1977


2017

 

Is that a 7F in the Now photo? If it's 53808 then it appears in both!

 

Mr Aldfort Sir,

The WSR is a business albeit one that benefits from a huge amount of free labour. You can have as much free labour as you want but without a central business paying the bills, no wheels would turn. The business as it presently stands is not running at peak efficiency. I don't think there's anything controversial in that statement and I know we both agree on how a number of workstreams could be done better and at lower overall cost.
Let me make a few predictions for August 2020.

1. We will still be running 6 coach trains.
2. The excellent working relationship between the WSRA and the Plc (the business) will continue to flourish.
3. We will be far closer to being "one railway" than we are at present as a direct result of 2).
4. We will operate a far leaner business than we do today.
5. A few people may decide that a new operating model is not for them or that decision will be made on their behalf.
6. 4110 will be in traffic.
7. We may, at a pinch finally have the ability to take water properly at Williton which greatly increases our operating flexibility by using smaller locos on large trains.
8. We will exceed 225,000 pax per annum.
9. Station House at Stogumber will be painted in GWR colours (I'm being flippant but I reckon it's a safe bet, eh Robin ?)

I'll let you buy me a pint in the event that 6 predictions or more come true so mark it in your diary.

All the best.

Brian

 

Aldfort, picking up on Snifters comments and yours regarding it is a business or not, I feel it is a business but I also understand your point that it doesn’t look like a business in the traditional sense. My earlier point in post 6128 was that the WSR needs to think more like a business and conduct itself as such as it’s not just a group of enthusiasts anymore its much bigger (thanks to those enthusiasts).

To explain my comments better I worked within Motability for around 7 years, a limited company set up with a specific purpose (giving transport solutions to people with disabilities). It’s a not for profit business where the shareholders don’t get a return, it buys, leases, maintains and disposes of cars and adapted vehicles for people who need them. It’s supported by a Charity also called Motability and has a large number of stake holder companies/organisations ranging from local charities and fund raisers to government departments and motor manufacturers it works with, all with different agendas and objectives.

To give some scope and scale it is currently the largest vehicle leasing company in Europe, employs over 700 people and buys around 145,000 new cars in the UK every year, it works with all the motor manufacturers on a commercial basis and is the largest seller of used cars in the UK, yet it also has all of its fund raising, charity work and many other functions completed by volunteers from many different organisations aligned to it. As a business it has worked since 1976 and has grown every year since despite many challenges along the way.

If all this sound familiar it should as it’s the way the WSR is structured just on a different scale in a different industry. Motability view themselves as a business and have a sustainable business model that keeps the company slowly growing in a manageable way, it doesn’t rely on fund raising to buy or maintain cars it has dedicated revenue streams for that. It uses its fund raising to add value to people who are most in need of heavily adapted vehicles through grants.

I absolutely take your point and agree that the spirit of the 1970’s shouldn’t be lost and at an operating level more volunteers need to do more work and have more enjoyment and we should not lose sight of why we all want to volunteer and why people really enjoy riding on steam trains. Indeed we should not just become a fully commercially focused business, there is a reason that the WSR and all others are there and its not to make a profit for shareholders.

However at the strategic level I feel that it and many others need to be more business-like in their thinking and culture to support the things we all enjoy as the amounts of money involved today and therefore the chance of getting in very wrong, very quickly are now in a totally different league from the 1970’s and I know we are both on the same page in this. I can also see that with new PLC & Association boards now in place this will take place and the future is looking a lot better than a couple of years ago.

 

It is. But, of course, there are now TWO(!) on the WSR....

Robin

 

Yes it is 88 as you can see the white electricity warning badges on the tender, 89 doesn't have them.