West Somerset Railway General Discussion

As some might know I have had many e-discussions with the MRLG people and their supporters including a "lively" chat or two on Facebook. They clearly are asking the question in Andy's first paragraph. And I quite understand why they ask it. The rails do indeed stretch from Minehead through to Taunton and the rest of the GB network. So why is it not used to help the transport needs of the local people.

Whilst musing on these things, I tend to look at parallel arguments. I did smile at the possible use of another local tourist facility, Dunster Castle, and whether some local people might consider it is underused and might just help solve the homelessness crisis hereabouts. Lots of empty rooms you see. But I haven't noticed an action group demanding such as solution. Perhaps the WSR is an easier target.

Steve

 

Not lack of ambition, Richard. More common sense. In my humble view.

Trains do run to/from the national network and I'd suggest many more trains have accessed the junction at Norton over the years than all other network-connected heritage railways put together.

What folks forget is that the WSR has little commercial gain for its own services by running an extra five miles to/from Taunton. No point in subsidising a lossmaking service. Whether a TOC might run a profitable service from Taunton onto the WSR is a matter for them. I haven't seen a queue at the door so I guess they have done their sums too.

Personally I'd love to see the WSR being used for a daily regular service as this would maintain the heritage of the primary reason we have the railway in the first place - moving people and goods along a railway in West Somerset. But unless heavily subsidised from public funds (unlikely), I also realise it is, in the end, a commercial decision.

Steve

 

Do you see a regular link by 2025 Steve?

Personally I would think that the 0930 BL departure originating from Taunton with a return service leaving MD late afternoon should bring in genuine day trippers. Also it is accepted practice for national railways to set their fares according to the train you travel on rather than a set fare station to station so there should be no big deal offering off-peak fares.

 

" SVR managed it long ago,"
But 95% of their passengers still come by car and most of the rest on coaches.

What the WSR needs is a bigger car park at BL.

How busy is the line to Barnstaple ? Lots of commuters ?

 

We very nearly had one of the most vociferous bods on the Association as a trustee too, thought he could work it from the 'inside' ....

 

1 I have no idea! I was hoping it would start by the end of the 1970s but...

2 Yes it would bring in genuine daytrippers but how many? More importantly, there is a considerable cost (mainline-plated DMU, access charges) to your proposal to run those trains to/from Taunton which I'm sure would not be covered by ticket sales. Who would underwrite the losses?

Steve

 

Not sure I really understand that. The WSR already has a mainline connection, which can be used for valuable purposes such as bringing in materials such as ballast etc. I haven't done the stats, but I suspect that of stations on preserved railways, Minehead is far and away the leading destination for incoming charter trains. I can't think of any of the other obvious candidates (Sheffield Park, Swanage, Bridgnorth etc) that get anything like the incoming railtour traffic of Minehead.

The NYMR is obviously a bit of a special case, but it isn't really true that the Bluebell, SVR etc. "run through to the national network". What they have is a physical connection (as does the WSR) and a heritage line station in proximity to the mainline station. Even so, it might be interesting to see what proportion of their passenger numbers arrives by rail as opposed to by car. Not vast, I suspect. What neither of them is doing is providing in any meaningful sense an outbound service: it's theoretically possible to get on a train at Sheffield Park and go to London and back in a day, but I doubt many people are using it for their daily commute!

The closest comparison to the WSR is probably Swanage: (trackbed owned by local council; physical connection to mainline in place, but junction station a few miles from normal heritage line starting station; other end of line a seaside town separated by slow roads from nearby larger towns). The Swanage Railway are running a limited through service to Wareham; however, there are significant differences, notably both in the political commitment of the County Council, and the length of journey. Even allowing for that, I remain sceptical that the Swanage experiment will be viable long term without significant subsidy, and the WSR situation seems even less likely to be viable without significant subsidy. The local politicians would do far better to recognise and promote what the WSR already provides: a major source of incoming tourists spending their cash in the local economy.

Tom

 

While I can see most folks point of view on the likelihood or not of a regular TN MD rail link. (I'm still holding my breath for the South Wales Metro where most of the infrastructure is already in place.) I do agree that the railway should be proactively engaging with all the various groups, councils and departments of government.
If I was to make a prediction I'd say the first thing one might see is a link TN to NF, but even there the cost of making this something that could be used regularly would be massive. You only have to look at the current frequency of main line trains and the track conformation to understand part of the problem. Add that to the fact that there is now no room to relay a line straight to Taunton and the cost to do so given the disruption to the cabling to start to get a reality check. Not saying something can't happen but it needs a very careful costing and a discussion between the WSR, local councils, the relevant TOC and NR before any real answer will emerge. Just getting the answer will cost money. Let's also not forget the other question. What would be the impact on local business if the heritage railway reduced it's operations to make space for a commercial service? The WSR still attracts about 200,000 people into the area every year. I can say with absolute certainly that they don't "just" spend money on the railway. Our timetable positively encourages them to spend time at their destinations of choice. They may each only spend a "few quid" outside of the railway but those unquantified "few quid" will add up!

 

Another pie in the sky proposal. Unfortunately it will send the Minehaed Chamber Of Commerce into a frenzy again. Please can the mods move these post to the separate forum? TIA

 

So that we can get back to the real business of overgrown road signs in Worcestershire as it is self evident that running trains from Taunton to Minehead has nothing to do with West Somerset Railway Operations.

 

To suggest that the WSR does not have ambition is absurd. Nobody has come up with a remotely credible scheme as the WSR PLC well knows. The comparisons you make with the three other heritage lines demonstrates a lack,of knowledge of the many differences between them. As for 2025 dream on.

 

I'm not advocating commuter services, nor am I suggesting daily services - nor even year round services. I just find it painful that it is not possible for people to get on a train at Taunton and travel to Minehead.

Rail travel is booming
Stations and lines are reopening
The government, however cynically, are backing this revival
Minehead is a desirable destination but is not currently prospering
A campaign (like it or not) is building to re-establish services
Local traders and the population appear to be in favour of this
Rebecca Pow (MP for Taunton Deane) stood up in Parliament today talking about infrastructure in the area
Housing development is taking place along the length of the line
The cost of road improvements is astronomical and risks ruining the essence of the area
Charters come from all over the country but because of their enthusiast orientation are of limited benefit to the town

Having played host to HST units is there any objection apart from the financial?

I suggest the importance of a through service is particularly apparent to those living in Minehead with families growing up in the area who would like them to be able to stay in a prosperous town rather than having to move away to get a decent living. It may be the railway alone shouldn't have to stand the cost but the social and economic benefit is worth support from local business and authorities as well as the much maligned Chamber of Commerce (and in the last instance I am aware that education is needed in that area) and all those with a vested interest in the prosperity of the town and locality.

The first step is to acknowledge this and keep it in mind when making plans and in things we do. At its simplest perhaps we should get used to running trains on time and not accepting 20 minute delays as inconsequential.

 

The numbers don’t add up.

Robin

 

Well the "apart from the financial" is probably the overwhelming reason why it hasn't happened (much) in the last forty years, as I tried to point out earlier.

Anyway, the last we heard was that WSR and GWR and other key players have mooted the idea of a regular service between Taunton and Bishops Lydeard possibly in 2018-ish. If it doesn't pay it won't last long.

Steve

 

Very much less likely to happen now that some of the ‘peripheral’ GWR electrification has been cancelled / kicked into the very long grass along with the rolling stock cascade that would have resulted.

Robin

 

18 months ago I worked through the Minehead Rail Group / Minehead Chamber of Commerce statements on their website about a potential Taunton -Minehead Rail service and explained the unrealities in their position in what Alex de Mondoza called my ‘red letter’. (Their statements were in black, my analysis of them in red.)

I was promised a response. None has ever emerged. Change/ progress / forward movement isn’t created by ignoring the inconvenient facts / problems in the way of getting things done.

Only by faceing, grappling with and solving the problems does that happen. I see no sign of the MRG / MCC doing that. Rather they are wasting the time of those around them.

Robin

 

I suggest Minehead (and West Somerset in general) should look closer to home rather than blame the lack of a rail link.

My office manager has been casting around for somewhere to go on holiday next year. She's a single mum and on a budget, and knows that Christine and I visit West Somerset as often as possible so asked for some suggestions. After some looking at websites at pricing, the conclusion was that she can rent a nice cottage on the coast for a week further southwest for less than the price of a static caravan anywhere between WN and MD.

That says to me that either West Somerset is pricing itself out of the market, or more likely visitor numbers to the area are on a par with supply.

What we have noticed in our business (we run a fleet of canal boats for hire) is that people will hire the boat for their holiday but they won't spend any money on extras - we can see that far more cooking is being done on board rather than eating out at the ever dwindling number of canalside pubs for example. That is I suspect where the WSR and all the other local attractions are suffering, especially when the beach is free.

 

Jeremy Vine today:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09gdn8d#play
Alex de M is on at around 30:00 (funny he doesn't mention the cost or the necessary upgrades)

Steve

 

What happened to Dunster Blue Anchor Doniford and Crowcombe? or did I miss it ..... he hung the phone up pretty quick too

 

Yet More good publicity for the WSR!

The December edition of Steam Railway Magazine includes a great article profiling the 7F's and includes a trip out on the line with Stuart 'SEC' Nelhams and George 'The 7F whisperer' Thomas.

A great article to end a truly great year for the WSR.