West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Excellent photos Robin. I especially liked the photo of parts 1 & 2 of the Santa Express.

 

The big problems with TLAs is that a) they can mean different things in different contexts, and b) people can forget what they actually stand for!
(one of my managers was a great user of TLAs, I asked him once what one of the meant, and he didn't know!!)

 

FFS!

 

TLA is not an acronym, it is an abbreviation.......... All acronyms are abbreviations. Not all abbreviations are acronyms. I suggest some people need to look up the difference

 

My previous comments about a Norton interchange stand - especially the requirement for the WSR to operate a daily service between Norton and Minehead, from early morn to late eve throughout the year (with what?) and without which the notion of a "through" service falls down leaving only a handful of passengers using the limited number of mainline trains calling at Norton (TOCs using the WoE mainline will not want most of their trains to stop there if they are stopping anyway just a couple of miles up the road).

Casual cross-platform daytrippers will not pay for the cost of building a station at Norton, or even pay for the additional running costs for the WSR.

It is not a good idea to spend £millions on something that would be of little use, because it is cheaper. Better to do nothing at all. The car analogy is true but only if the purpose is the same. Whereas the service to Norton would be very different to a service to Taunton.

You are right about revenue covering expense. It won't. An ongoing subsidy from the public purse is a given requirement for any solution for a regular train service between Taunton and Minehead.

Steve

 

PIS - pedantry is sovereign!

 

Those who contemplate a new station at NF as an interchange with NR have no grasp of the reality whatsoever. In fact they are even further from the reality than the MCOC and their chums. How can they seriously consider that the TOCs would be willing to stop at NF and Taunton. Adding another four or five minutes dwell time would simply add to the journey times and produce negligible extra revenue. That alone would kill the nproject stone dead regardless of the impossibility of running the service to and from Minehead. Once again please could the Mods move these posting to the separate thread? TIA.

 

Did you used to work for British Rail? You advance exactly the same arguments against re-opening stations that BR used to advance thirty years ago. I have already said that re-opening NF only makes sense in the context of re-introducing a stopping service along the line and re-opening other stations, yet you persist in advancing the the straw man argument that re-opening NF in isolation would not make financial sense.

Yes, please do, it's impossible to have a decent discussion if half the posts are on the wrong thread and also impossible to use the correct thread to reply to a post on the wrong one.

 

If we are going to be pedantic, the correct term for TLA is an initialism. Nobody actually said that it was an acronym: it doesn't have to be self-descriptive.

 

What requirement for the WSR to operate a daily service? Passengers can use the WSR for public transport purposes without any such service. It is possible to travel on a steam train simply in order to get from A to B, you know. I myself have done so, on the Mid-Hants. Most of the Irish railway network used to operate on two trains a day: there is absolutely no need to have the sort of timetables being bandied around in order have a "public transport service". No, it's not going to carry any commuters, but that was always a dead duck, apart from those who might use a service operated by a TOC from BL to TA.
You still appear to be saying that there is no point in looking at any connection of the WSR to the national network, because a full daily service between Taunton and Minehead would be prohibitively expensive. That's what I meant about the best being the enemy of the good.

 

I have read with interest, tinged with some amazement and a smidgeon of incredulity, the plethora of postings on this subject, which as Yorkshireman rightly asserts might be better posted on the separate thread,

However I think there may be an important subsidiary question. Should the WSR, as is, operate on more days of the year ?

Some of the major Heritage Railways operate at weekends for most, if not all, of the year. I recognise the issues ie particularly staffing and winter maintenance (I am sure there are volunteers who are at somewhat of a loss during the Winter months - regarding planned maintenance, this is overcome on other Heritage Railways often by operating over half the route, the other half being subject to a 'relaying' etc. With Watchet as a destination the WSR has two distinct viable routes.)

There is an often proffered argument that the passenger figures do not justify it. This is I submit is an area where depending on your view of fixed and marginal costs one can arrive at the answer you want. The extra marginal costs of operating through the winter weekends are essentially, assuming rosters can be filled by volunteers, motive power costs and wear and tear on rolling stock. There are I appreciate issues e.g. The low cost option is the DMU but it appears to be a big challenge keeping the unit operating during the current running season let alone longer. However I submit these and similar objections can be managed.

Simplistically I think:
a) passenger revenue p.a.needs to increase for the WSR to meet its maintenance commitments ( I am assuming, as a pragmatic strategy, that the cost of infrastructure maintenance is paid out of fare revenue. Fund raising will concentrate on rolling stock, including motive power and new works)
b) operating for more days p.a might lessen some of the whinging that emanates from the Minehead Business Community wrt "no winter services". Also if a TOC operates into BL it provides onward connections throughout the year. (I appreciate if say the BL-WN section was closed for a major 'relaying' then a replacement bus becomes the norm. I note that the Bluebell manages such things for instance.)
c) More operating days helps West Somerset in its vision (sometimes lost in various petty issues) to evolve further as a tourist destination.

Michael Rowe

 

Thats a very fine cat

 

Between January & November 2018 there are only 10 weeks with no trains running

 

10 out of 52 seems quite a high percentage ? Additionally throughout the year there are no passenger trains on one day in three.

Plenty of opportunities for increased revenue generation let alone offering a better service ?

Michael Rowe

 

I think I may have misunderstood you and I strayed into a discussion about the MLRG's aim for a regular, daily, rail service. It also seems we are not discussing extending the WSR to Taunton, either. My comments about those aspects should be on the other WSR thread.

We seem to be talking about building an interchange station at Norton. I disagree with that notion because I just don't see it being remotely profitable for the WSR or any TOCs who might be minded to stop some of their services there, when WSR services are running. It's just not worth the capital and running expense (a physical connection with NR - then yes I agree wholeheartedly with that)

Sure, the WSR can now as it has for 40 years, provide a public transport service, of sorts. I have been both a user of, and a volunteer working on, such a WSR service. I've no quibble with that. But the ticket price isn't an attractive proposition, especially if used regularly.

Steve

 

If we are talking about running more trains I suggest that at least the DMU needs a major refit or better still a second set is needed

 

I don’t believe reopening NF makes sense in any circumstances whatsoever. There are not, AFAIK sufficient spare paths to run a slow stopping service on the main line through Taunton. If that is the case, and by all means provide verifiable evidence to support your assertion, then any further examination of the problem is pointless. A similar proposal has been made for a commuter service serving a reopened Langport or Somerton station. That died a death because the were not sufficient paths and the capital and running costs would make it totally uneconomic. Frankly the whole idea of an NF interchange is preposterous. Nothing to do with what BR might have said in the past. It really is time you stopped pontificating on the subject.

 

If its all about commuters. a limited stop bus service running to central Taunton would be far more cost effective.

 

The whole premise of being able to run a commuters service from Minehead to a Taunton has been soundly debunked several times before. Please use the separate thread on the subject. Once again mods please move all this there. TIA

 

Well Michael
What a fascinating post.
I wonder if there are any reasoned financials behind the premise that the WSR can make more money by running more days that it would appear to cost more to run in variable cost terms than cash in through the fare box.
Seems a bit counter intuitive.
It would make more sense to reduce the number of negative income days thus making the most of the paid staff (who end up with lots of time in lieu of overtime leave) and volunteers who are not an endlessly expandable resource.
The daily variable costs (coal, fuel, loco hire, equipment wear and tear and servicing ) are all reduced and focused on the positive income days.
The fixed establishments costs (direct labour and management charges) may have to be spread over fewer operational days but they won't be stretched so far and thus should be more effective.

Now as to the DMU, this is an unsung hero of the WSR, cheap to run, can be crewed by 2 people , no hire fees or 10 years boiler overhauls.
Just needs a large shed to restore the spare driving car, sort out the 4th car and conduct the routine maintenance.
I wonder where we might find one of those on the WSR???
Keeping an eye out for another of the same class would be nice, no more being made!!

Well we all await further news of WSR developments with interest.

Jeff Price

PS I am happy that the WSR operations thread remains a broad church regarding subjects WSR
If some people want to be drifted off to another thread, that fine with me.
Mod please note- Thanks in Advance....................