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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Ploughman

    Ploughman Part of the furniture

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    I assume that you mean a Ballast Regulator.
    I think that the machine that is usually used on the WSR is a contract machine brought in when needed.
    I believe this machine is self propelled but is only able to move or work in a possession.
    It may not be possible to couple it up to anything else without a special adaptor.

    I think this may be the contractors facebook link.
    https://www.facebook.com/1520899814...eOznUGopXtjKzxYD7PHAAML6xuYSzB6j&__tn__=EHH-R
     
  2. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

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    The WSR already uses HOPS - it's being gradually phased in. I don't know the total extent of its use at present, except that I do know the Signalman Rostering is done with HOPS and that my training records are there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  3. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    While I can see your point about the title and totally agree with your second sentence, what matters more than job title is how the holder does their post - acting as enabler and advisor to everyone else in discharging their safety responsibilities rather than considering themselves (or allowing others to treat them) as the 'only' safety focused person around! Management support is also vital.

    This is where I have to disagree with Peter - the Safety Manager (Safety Systems Manager I believe is a preferred title - again because of what it says about how Safety is managed) - the Safety System requires the full 'buy-in' (and hence support) of the General Manager (Other titles exist for the senior post but I shall use this one for ease). By all means have direct reports to the Board - Safety should be the first item on every agenda and the Board needs to be able to show it considers the matter properly - and is itself adequately trained and experienced to enable it to do so properly.

    By implication, advisors do not have any executive authority to act - they can be a very important part of a safety management system - an advisor (who doesn't have the responsibility for day to day delivery in the area concerned) can make recommendations which managers would need a good reason not to follow (and would expose themselves to real risk if they don't follow without good reason).

    Another point of potential argument is who is named as the senior person with overall responsibility for safety of operations in the Safety Management Systems and hence in respect of the Safety Certificate. One school of thought, which I follow both from my own reasoned examination of the question and the relevant experience of others who firmly believe this, is that it should be the General Manager or equivalent role. Others differ in this view, but my fear would be that if the named person was under General Manager level, they could be countermanded and the overall direction of the organisation may be focused on something other safe operation. While I know some argue that there is far more to a preserved railway than the train operation, and hence a General Manager with experience in, say commercial, heritage or volunteer areas is what is needed, the train operation is central and without it, at best a preserved railway would be something very different and at worst (and more likely), simply not exist.

    One final point - despite the number of ex-national network people involved in preserved railways, there often seems to be a resistance to appointing ex-national network managers into management posts, and, as already noted on here, a pretty much instinctive rejection of management especially from such backgrounds. While their can be a culture change needed from any manager previously used to working with an entirely paid workforce, and a mixed paid/volunteer workforce always has the potential for tensions (why is X paid to do a similar role to volunteer Y?), this very fact can put those coming from a paid management background of any nature coming into preserved railway management at a slight disadvantage and need to adjust - even if they have been volunteers. Some lines have groups with additional reasons to undermine management, but the question of having safety management systems that are suitably drawn and, vitally, properly complied with is as dependent upon attitudes to and by management as they are on drawing up adequate systems in the first place.

    Steven
     
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  4. 46229

    46229 New Member

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    The WSR is hosting a similar HOPS seminar in February - AIUI it has been successfully trialled in the WSR Signalling Dept this year before being rolled out further, which is the right way to do it. There is now quite a bit of shared good practice between the GWR and WSR, in both directions.... Positive stuff about the WSR appearing on this thread - surely not....!
     
  5. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Good to know. I imagine once you start using HOPs, you see other features that before you didn't even know you needed!
     
  6. Fred Kerr

    Fred Kerr Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Slightly tangential - but possibly relevant to the WSR situation - is the RAIB report on a runaway trolley on the ELR where lack of procedures is highlighted. Does this indicate either that the WSR is only the tip of an iceberg or that the Heritage lines have not fully understood their responsibilities in terms of administration and documentation of procedures.

    See https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/rep...ign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate
     
  7. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Whatever the title they should report direct to the board not via the GM. Their actions should not be vetoable except by the board.
     
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  8. The Dainton Banker

    The Dainton Banker Well-Known Member

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    It is poor practice to have different managers reporting direct to the Board, it can be confusing for board members and result in undermining the authority of the GM (or CEO, if you prefer that term). It is up to the Board to appoint a GM in whom they can have trust. If (and I have struck it, but it is most unusual) there is genuine concern that the GM is not doing their job properly then, and only then, should subordinate managers seek discussion with the Board Chairman, preferably as a group and not as individuals, which might give the wrong impression.
     
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  9. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    The whole point is that Safety Advisors do not take actions - they are there to advise those who do. They therefore must be easily accessible to all levels.
     
  10. 21B

    21B Part of the furniture

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    The General Manager is the duty holder for the railway (unless something very amiss is happening). They are therefore the most senior manager responsible for safety, and that should be their #1 priority. The Safety Manager is a person that the GM delegates the day to day responsibility for creating and managing safety policy, audit and other duties. They cannot delegate the responsibility for running a safe railway, because that is the boards responsibility which they should discharge through the correct management, training, targeting and holding to account of the General Manager. Good practice would suggest that there should be a Safety Director or Director on the board whose specific duty is to provide advice on H&S and on behalf of the board maintain oversight of the GM's and Safety Manager's performance. However, the SM should NOT report to the Safety Director, who ought not to be an executive director and must not undermine the role of either of the managers by issuing edicts for example, unless the SM and GM have been dilatory, which shouldnt happen if the director is "on the ball".
     
  11. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    I would agree with Yorkshireman, the most Senior Level Safety Person (whatever title you want them to have) should either report or ideally sit on the board.
    I worked at British Airways which has a strong safety culture, and whilst many departments (eg Engineering) had their own safety departments that reported to their line directors the ultimate safety role was held by a Director of Safety and Security, normally in our case an ex or current pilot.
    Even a lowly fire warden must be able to tell and make a GM or Director to get out of a building during an alarm
     
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  12. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Whilst I have no direct knowledge if, as seems to be the case, that the ORR feel that the railway is not being run properly, it follows that the GM must take some responsibility for that as well as the board. At present we just don’t know. Very tough decisions may need to be made and it is common for volunteer directors to lack experience in this field. What I do know is that keeping people in the dark is seldom good policy. As a shareholder I am, to say the least, disappointed that the news was not released to me at the same time, and indeed I have only officially seen the amended document on the website. I have received no response to my complaint about this. The WSR, at all levels, need to understand the power of social media and how to use it in a positive way. So far I have see no sign of that happening.
     
  13. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    I think some of the posts on here about managers this and manager that, kind of shows that they have limited or no experience working in a largely volunteer organisation like a steam railway. In general it isn't run like a normal commercial business with a hierarchy of staff, where the boss says jump and you jump. When you are a volunteer you are there because of your own enjoyment and commitment to the cause. You don't have to go at all and can quit at any time with no loss. Plenty of people start and then drop out after a while as presumably it isn't for them.
    Even for those that do go, it is often a big commitment, especially if they work full time mid week and have families to look after too.

    If you have an individual who is given a bit of power, with some people it can go to their heads and they start thinking they can boss people about with a "you do as you are told" attitude. You might be able to get away with that in a company if you are the boss because staff are there for the money but in a volunteer organisation those kind of people are a disaster as inevitably it causes volunteers to vote with their feet and leave in droves and once that sets in it can quickly lead to decline. People have enough of that kind of thing in their day to day lives. They don't want it at weekends when they are doing their Steam train hobby, which is what it is.

    Even when there are so called department heads, they have to treat people with a gentle manner as if you are all volunteers, one person isn't subordinate to another and neither should they be made to feel that way. They are not 'head' or 'manager' of anything really but all equal. Even if they are paid staff instructing volunteers they still need to bear in mind that the volunteer can vote with their feet whenever they want.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2018
  14. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    Thank you. You point is better made than I did.
     
  15. I am told the WSR will be issuing more details on the ORR issue during this week.

    Steve
     
  16. threelinkdave

    threelinkdave Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I understand the sentiment behind this post your ability to just walk away if you are in an operational grade is limited. Having submitted ny availability to the roster clerk and been rostered for a day I am available the Volunteer Code of conduct requires me to turn up or find a replacement. Yes I could just walk away but that would mean burning bridges. Do this too many times and you may find you are not welome anywhere
     
  17. Gunz412

    Gunz412 New Member Loco Owner

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    And this my friends is the root of so many problems for all volunteer organisations. There is no easy answer.

    A short story:
    I volunteered with another railway from the age 13, often criticising the management team (most of who were also volunteers) for being out of touch with the rank and file volunteer base.

    After 15 years I was appointed General Manager. 5 years later I had no choice but to drag the business into the 21st century because of H&S requirements. Staff needed to be certified and records had to be kept. I even went so far as to insist that all projects have a budget.

    A group of young volunteers verbally attacked me for being out of touch with the rank and file volunteer base. I had come full circle, and it hurt. Deeply.
     
  18. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I disagree with that. Leaving aside your characterisation of the paid workplace, which isn’t my experience, it isn’t true in a volunteer environment that all volunteers are equal. If you are on the footplate, the driver has seniority: if he or she asks you to do something, that isn’t the time to start discussing the finer points of collectivism.

    Similarly, one of the (volunteer) roles I undertake on our railway is Loco Running Foreman, responsible for all operations within the loco yard during the day. Obviously you have a concern for the well-being and enjoyment of all the volunteers, but ultimately, when it comes to a safety critical task such as authorising a movement, my word has to be senior to everyone else’s - there has to be absolute clarity about who is the point of authority for any actions. In that situation, not all volunteers are equal. Of course, the next day I might just be a yard hand and need to take instructions from that’s day’s RF.

    Tom
     
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  19. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Both of these posts describe accurately the reality of a working environment and the fact that volunteers have to understand their role and their responsibilties. It's not all that different in the heritage world compared with some day jobs. I have found myself led and directed by someone who was technically not my senior. It just needs understanding.

    I'm taking silence from the WSR about the ORR visit to simply mean that they are working out a considered response before saying something rather than a reactionary one. If true, then that signals the correct managerial approach, imo.
     
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  20. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the OP didn't mean 'not turn up for a slot one had signed up for' (which would, as you point out, be wrong), but rather 'not sign up for any more'.

    Noel
     
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