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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

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    4165? Do you mean 4561?
     
  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Hired locos always seem less attractive than owned ones because you are paying out to use them when you do. Rightly or wrongly, it is usually considered to be more sensible to use your own loco at no immediate cost rather than pay to use someone else's. You are also more in control of things. Hired locos may also have poorer availability because the owners do not have the resources to return them back to traffic in the shortest possible time if there is a problem.
    The NYMR until recently had some privately owned locos on what was termed a 'service' agreement, which might be a possibility. The Railway had no up front outlay in terms of purchase and overhaul costs. It received the loco after overhaul by the owner(s) and had free use of the it but was then responsible for all maintenance and, at the end of the hire period was responsible for returning the loco to an 'as received' condition; i.e. freshly overhauled. On the face of it, this is an attractive way forward with flexibility but there is the danger that, at the end of the 'ticket' the money is not available for the required overhaul. I'd venture to suggest that the NYMR has, in the past, had its fingers burned by such agreements because it did not put money aside or plan for the inevitable.
    Whilst the ideal is probably for the railway to own all its locomotives (and other assets) this rarely happens in reality (some narrow gauge lines excepted) and the most likely is a mix of the two. That mix seems to work quite well. I always have worries about lines that hire in all their locos as it reduces their level of control and can easily put them in a weak position.
     
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  3. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Yes! :oops: Amended.
     
  4. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Well-Known Member

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    Their is one Standard gauge that does own all of its Locos and assets, the Isle of Wight Steam Railway
     
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  5. stephenvane

    stephenvane Member

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    Indeed, however they have been very fortunate in having been gifted five steam locos in recent years. Things might be different otherwise.
     
  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I wonder if this mixed ownership - different groups owning different locos, rolling stock etc, is perhaps a legacy of the way in which locos were preserved and preserved railways were established - ie different groups and individuals bought locos from BR, Industrial or scrapyards, and were then looking for places to restore and run them, while the railways were glad of locos to run. I guess often there was a fair amount of overlap between loco groups and railways in many cases with the same people being involved. I guess this works well as long as everyone is getting on and everyone is equally involved.
     
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  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Fortunate in the sense of being regarded by the donors as being good custodians and with a corporate structure that protects the long term future of the donated locos with the railway. So “fortunate” in the sense of “reaping the benefits from being well governed” rather than in the sense “won the lottery”.

    Tom
     
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  8. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    When I said hired engines I really meant hired third party engines - i.e. from owners who have no other substantial connection with the railway. I'd expect priority to be given to the owners of a loco owned by a group committed to the WSR. I know it didn't happen for the owners of 5542 or 3850, but hopefully times have changed.
     
  9. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    "All for one and one for all" in effect. In addition, all land and building freeholds are owned debt free, including a small area of ancient woodland which is an S.S.S.I. and explained to visitors. Easier if you are a reasonable size.
     
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  10. Yorkshireman

    Yorkshireman Part of the furniture

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    There is no standard agreement. Each is different. That is an important consideration but now the priority is funding ownership.
     
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  11. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    A virtuous circle.
     
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  12. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    The point which has been made is that if hire fees are to be paid, then ensure they are paid to a supporting charity which owns the locos.
    Is it coincidence that 5542/3850/7820 and 4160 were all owned by private limited companies and have left (after long associations with the line) whereas 4561 remains on the line under the umbrella of a charity. I think that’s partly why some are expressing concerns that a further private company for 4110 is not perhaps the right way to go.

    Aside from this it’s great that 70k has been raised but potentially the sum would be greater by now if gift-aidable. (This obviously assumes all donors are taxpayers and would be happy to give to charity in preference to owning a personal stake)...

    Regards

    Matt
     
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  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    If considering a donation of this kind, I consider the availability of Gift Aid as a way of making my money go further, but am relatively relaxed as to whether a railway organisation is structured as a company or as a charity - both have their places. I make no comment on 5542/3850/7820, but will observe that the politics around 4160 are such that I suspect it would have moved regardless of legal form of ownership.
     
  14. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Well, remember, that's just to buy the thing - the restoration will be another small tanker-load.

    And although the purchase has to be put together quickly, meaning they don't have time to arrange a channel that gets gift-aid, for the restoration funding, that will be slower, so hopefully they'll have time to work it out for that.

    Noel
     
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  15. mvpeters

    mvpeters Member

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    4110
    Some of the money raised so far is in the form of pledges, rather than actual cash.
    When these pledges are fulfilled, I wonder if they could be paid to the WSRA, thus attracting Gift Aid.
    This may complicate the ultimate ownership, but is it legally possible?
     
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  16. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
  17. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    An interesting snippet from the West Somerset Free Press this week. This is the Crossing known as ‘Whisky Trail Crossing’ Since WW2, I believe.

    7042E69F-60A0-4692-89EF-10D6591520B2.jpeg
     
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  18. AnthonyTrains2017

    AnthonyTrains2017 Well-Known Member

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    WSF this weekend, oh yes....

    Can’t wait to see 7828.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  19. Faol

    Faol Member

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    High Everyone,
    Fantastic and encouraging news just received on 4110 FB site. We have passed £80,000. What an incredible effort. How about another big push to try and get to the £100K by the 1st of Jan? Please remember this is the fund to BUY the loco and as such it does not yet impact on restoring it to service. By owning it the group of owners can determine that she stays on the WSR. The only Taunton shedded loco to run on the branch where Granddads like me can say to our Grandchildren I saw this engine in Taunton Yard when I was young and look at her now. Come on if you haven't yet please get behind this purchase and ensure this loco remains on the WSR.
     
  20. AnthonyTrains2017

    AnthonyTrains2017 Well-Known Member

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