What is the long term future for the unrestored Barry engine

Im sure the question has probably been asked before, but does anyone have an idea how many engines are in Barry condition?

 

Or rather, lets expand on that slightly -

I believe approx 200 engines came out of Barry Yard?

How many have EVER steamed?
How many have, but are now out of ticket?
How many of those that haven't steamed are actively being worked on?
How many are essentially ex - Scrapyard still?

A few thoughts -

There are an awful lot of out of ticket engines around the country awaiting overhaul, before you even think about restoring a Barry Hulk. However, many of those "complete" engines will have used up much of the residual life left in their components.

If an engine hasn't been touched during the 20 years since it came out of Barry, where is the interest going to come from now?

A Barry wreck is only a selection of parts of a loco. It is far removed from the complete article. Many of the engines that have run in preservation have already made use of parts from those that remained in Barry until the end. What's left is like the remains of a roast chicken. The outline is still there, but all the good bits have gone!

The Essex Loco Group plan makes a lot of sense. Nothing has been scrapped, but parts are being used to keep one engine constantly in traffic, so that it raises money for the group. I'm sure 30830 will have its turn. I did ask if there were any plans to have more than one of the three in traffic at any one time, as they are perfect for the NYMR, but sadly I was told that resources wouldn't allow.

 

I suppose you could ask the same question about Locomotives that have left Barry run once and then become abandoned due to allsorts of reasons

They then start to return to thier Barry state

 

Interesting topic.

For anybody wanting to find out more there is a book, "Barry Scrapyard-The Preservation Miracle" by Alan Warren a very good reference despite being published 20 yrs ago (some engines had not left the yard then!)

flicking through I think the number of locos returned to steam is in excess of 100. The majority of those which left up to the early 1980's have returned to steam, but there is still hope for even the last few in the late 80's with 5553 the last loco to leave in service, and others such as 80072 on the way.

Even after 20 years lying idle it would be incorrect to say that loco 'x' has no chance of coming back - a good example of this would be 7200 which sat at Quainton Road for many years after rescue before work began.

Anybody wanting to take a loco on has to have deep pockets and it seems there is a much better chance of coming back for the tank engines, some of the Southern Pacifics look to be a tall order indeed.

 

I think that over 120 of the engines that came out of Barry have now been steamed, with several more not too far off and quite a few where overhauls are under way. I don't think there can be more than 30-40 that are as yet untouched , and I don't think that there are many - if any - that have been abandoned (unless one considers locos taking their turn in restoration queues) since being steamed, but I'm sure that people will come up with specific examples. Its unrealistic to expect all of the Barry restorations to be in steam together, there's always going to be some working and some under overhaul.

 

I don't have the overall figures, but of the 144 surviving GWR (standard gauge) engines:
61 (42%) are currently in service
11 ( 8%) are under overhaul (having steamed in preservation)
26 (18%) are awaiting overhaul (having steamed in preservation)
19 (13%) are under active restoration
10 ( 7%) are cosmetically restored in museums
15 (10%) remain unrestored
2 ( 1%) are being converted to other classes

David

 

I don't know if this will help or not but here is a list i made last year of all the Barry condition engines. i.e. still in scrapyard condition. Don't know how up to date it is but there you go.
GWR 2800 Nos.2874/2861/2859/2873
GWR 2884 Nos.3855
GWR 42XX No.4253
GWR 7200 No.7229
GWR Hall Nos.5967/5952
GWR 56xx Nos.5668/6686
GWR 5205 No.5227
GWR 5101 Nos.4115/4110/4121
GWR Thornbury Castle
SR Merchant Navy Nos.35009/35010/35011/35018/35022
SR Battle of Britain No.34073
SR S15 Nos.30499/3083
LMS 5MT No.44901
LMS Ivatt class 2 No.46428

LMS Hughes Crab No.42859
LMS Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T No.41313/46447
LMS 4F Jinty No.47564 - Not a Barry engine but in a condition no worse than Barry engines.
BR 4MT 2-6-4T Nos.80150/80100
BR 4MT 2-6-0 No.76077
BR 9F Nos.92245/92219

 

Possibly i did make this list a while ago and so it's accuracy is questionable

 

7229 has had quite a lot of work done on it. Unfortunately the restoration has been stalled for a number of years due to "politics".
I also believe that work is being done on 44123.
47564 was not a Barry loco. It came directly from B.R., having been used as for carriage warming at Cheetham Hill carriage sidings Manchester until, I think, the early 1970s.
48173 is now being restored.
Add Ivatt 2 46447 to the list.

 

As per remarks the has been list updated.

 

Now lets start being honest about these locos

I hope I do not offend as most is based on heresay and what i see and know

PLEASE advise if different, feel free to modify or change if you know somthing i do not


GWR 2800 Nos.2874

2861 Part of the Barry Ten No Plans as far as I am aware of

2859 still Awaiting a sale the price has always been on the high side sale could be political as some people have put money in to the the group with a view to seeing it run at LLangollen

2873

GWR 2884 Nos.3855 After a long stays out in the open under the ownership of T Rippingale where no restoration work took place whatsoever it is now owned by Andy Booth and at the ELR I believe given Andys Track record 3855 will run again

GWR 42XX No.4253

GWR 7200 No.7229 I hear it is owned by a consortium of four people including Ian Riley the chassis was nearly finished at one point but has been pushed outside what a shame maybe its time to either get it done or move it on

GWR Hall Nos.5967 Bickmarsh Hall now at NLR again another ex Rippingale loco with no work done since Barry. Little work done so far as shown on website but do not expect much change out of £500.000 the new owner seems keen enough

5952 Cogan Hall Owned By Ken Ryder has never been restored but has moved around a lot it is now at Llynclys I hear it may be sold soon has a good collection of spares

GWR 56xx Nos.5668 Part of the Rippingale fleet i understand some it has been dismantled

6686 part of the Barry Ten no plans as far as i am aware of

GWR 5205 No.5227 Part of the Barry ten again a £500.000 job with a broken cylinder Block something will happen soon just cant say

GWR 5101 Nos.
4115 Part of the Barry Ten somthing will happen soon cant say what, sworn to secrecy etc etc

4110 Part of Southall group currently at Tysley dont expect much change over the next hundred year or so unless a change of ownership or large amount of cash comes there way

4121 Owned by Dr Kennedy Would consider selling but the asking price is way too much

GWR Thornbury Castle Owned by Pete Waterman We ALL hope he gets it done soon never seen anything set in stone about plans for 7027 shame

SR Merchant Navy Nos.35009

35010

35011

35018

35022

SR Battle of Britain No.34073

SR S15 Nos.30499

3083

LMS 5MT No.44901 Part of the Barry Ten no plans as yet but ideas for base of 5AT

LMS Ivatt class 2 No.46428 website good, seems to be progressing well, a useful engine, good luck guys

LMS Fowler 4F No.44123 I am pleased to see 4123 has arrived in the 21st centuary with a website and a good informative one at that well done whoever put it together and lets hope ypu get some more support so 4123 is not long off steaming

LMS Hughes Crab No.42859 not touched will not run with current ownership please move it on to somone else

LMS Ivatt 2MT 2-6-2T No.41313/46447 never met the owners but what a waste I was informed they were being saved like this for future generations while railways run short of Locos moved to Isle of wight now we will wait and see

LMS 4F Jinty No.47564 - Not a Barry engine but in a condition no worse than Barry engines

BR 4MT 2-6-4T Nos.80150 Part of the Barry ten no plans bloody big copper patch on firebox tyres shot to bits do not expect much change out of 600K

80100 stored at the Bluebell understood to have a good boiler which maked sense as the Bluebell already have a sandard tank could be a boiler swap one day

BR 4MT 2-6-0 No.76077 progressing very slowly at GWRS again would make a very useful loco please get on with it

BR 9F Nos.92245 Part of the Barry Ten No PLans expect to spend a Million quid no tender or bogie wheels etc

92219 owned by the same group who own 92214 a good source of spares if needed like boiler

Ok so I am being blunt and to the point

The message is we never really own any locomtive they are just passing though in our lifetime

You can be the one who did nothing because you woke up with the same dream but failed to act on it

Or you can be proud of what you have achived and given to the preservation movement

I wait the abuse

Might just finish it off and write one for ALL locomotives

 

On what basis do you say that 4F no. 4123 is a no-hoper?

Please take it off the list. It has a future, even if the restoration appears to be slow. Much work has been done and is being done.

Thanks
James

 

You have listed (if I counted correctly) 36 locos. Of these, perhaps 10-15 have a future as runners and the remainder are likely to end up as spare parts donors. If that happens it will mean that 85-90% of what came out of Barry will have been restored to Barry, a record that most of us would be very pleased with 40 years ago when it all started. For the most part, the at risk engines are examples of classes that are in abundance elsewhere, so perhaps any efforts to save at risk engines should focus on the likes of the crab that are rarer beasts.

 

This is just the type of answer I expected

I visit the Railway when i go to Bath ( My mum lives in Bath )

Considering 4123 is a straightforward locomotive with tender I would consider that 27 years after leaving Barry It should at least be part way through its second ten year ticket.

I ask you on based on facts can you tell us that it will run with the current ownership ?

Last time I saw 4123 it was in the open along with an 8f and a Bullied I know the 8f has moved and changed ownership and is all the better for doing so.

I have no idea how the Loco groups/owners operate at the Avon Valley, maybe you could tell
us ?

I would of though the first thing to do would be to get together and build a shed to work in

I leave it up to you James to tell us all about progress and future plans for 4123

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you 61624 Barry was the place where dreams came, true wallets, were emptied, and miracles DID happen.

Barry has created many stories some which still cannot be told I would just like to see all that is left with a clear positive future that will keep others running or be that new restoration in its own right like 80072 at Llangollen.

Barry did create a lot of politics, divorces, infighting, theiving, solicitors letters etc etc

 

Being able to buy a loco is one thing. Having the money/time/people/facilities to restore it and keep it running is a totally different matter.

Some steam railways have their own modern versions of "Barry", with rusting partly-dismantled locos standing in sidings (not to mention the rotting carriages/wagons).

I'm not sure if the "new-build" projects (Tornado, Grange etc) are really helping the situation either. I'm not saying that they are not good ideas or excellent bits of engineering - but is their fund-raising taking money away from other restoration projects? Their supporters only have so much money to spend.

Richard

 

I think that should be the group who own 92214 ?

 

Most railways have a queue of stuff awaiting restoration or overhaul - its inevitable because it is impossible to keep everything in working order 100% of the time. As enthusiasts this works in our favour, because locos that have not been in steam for 30 years create a stir when they return - take NELPG's Q6 or 70013 or 60019 as examples. The important thing is to conserve what is awaiting attention. Once it is gone it is gone forever. It's all very well making comments about lines of rusting or rotting wrecks but several of the LNERCA's teak train, which has made such an impact on the NYMR, used to fall into that category. It is encouraging to see interest turning to coaches up and down the country and hopefully the trend will continue. The tragedy of the Rippingale collection, to give one example, is that no attempt seems to have been made to stabilise it - in contrast to the ex-Barry Ivatts that have gone to the IoWSR. Hopefully the Rippingale locos will now at least be stabilised by their new owners. Similarly, at least the Barry 8 are now stored under cover and shouldn't deteriorate any further. At the end of the day, you have to remember that most rust represents relatively superficial damage on heavy components.

 

Personally I feel that in the not too distant past more emphasis was spent on buying amd initial restoration of the stock (be it locos, coaches or waggons) with relatively little thought given to how to conserve it whilst it is awaiting funds / a place in the restoration queue etc. The steps made for example on the SVR with the Engine House, at the Bluebell with Operation Undercover, at the BRC with the acquisition of the old buffer depot sheds etc etc, should in my opinion have happened along time ago. At least these facilities, and others like them, will prevent both ex Barry locos awaiting restoration and previously restored locos / coaches awaiting overhall / refurbishment deteriorating further. In an ideal world the sight of "rusting hulks" should be banished if more investment is made in undercover facilities.