What is the long term future for the unrestored Barry engine

Following the earlier debate about 4123, I have now got round to updating the website with the latest items of news.

http://www.4123.co.uk

Cheers
James

 

Just to bounce this up a little, I was looking for some photo's of 7229 the other night and uncovered some which I hadn't seen before of 7229, 7027 and 2873:

7027 - http://exbarrysteamlocos.fotopic.net/p58933012.html
2873 - http://exbarrysteamlocos.fotopic.net/p53343199.html
7229 - http://terrycampbell.fotopic.net/p50986955.html

 

Since that list was made, life for some of these Barry wrecks has looked up a bit. 5967 has ben sold and at least a start made on its restoration, and 2874 has been bought by the Dinmore Manor Fund, so this loco looks to have a secure future, even if restoration will be some years away.

41313 looks like some work has been done to it since leaving Barry, and although in the queue behind Calbourne and 41298, it should have a happy future ahead of it. 46447 is destined for cosmetic restoration, according to the Isle of Wight website, and should be under cover, so at least it will look good,even if it will probably never steam again.

As for 35009, it will be interesting to see what Ian Riley does with this engine once 44871 is finished. He is reported somewhere as saying he would restore it with a larger tender and paint it in early BR blue if no-one will buy it from him.

Restoration work was due to begin on 3855, but uts owner also owns 52322 which has recently had its problems on the ELR, so I guess that will push the start of restoration back a bit.

When the three Blaenavon engines were sold (2874, 3855 and 5967) the money raised was apparently to be used on starting the restoration of one of Mr Rippingale's two engines that remain there (4253 and 5668) Has anything happened on this front?

There is certainly the will to restore 80100 at the Bluebell. Had not 80151 migrated there, it would probably been well on its way towards steaming. I believe that work is currently scheduled to start when 84030 is finished.

It is rather unfortunate, although hardly surprising, that most of these unrestored engines are large tender engines. The recession will end, one day, and some of the newer heritage lines may well be able to contemplate expansion and financing the restoration of a Barry wreck in, say 5 years' time. However, unless you are 10 or more miles long and have some decent gradients, a 28xx, let alone a Merchant Navy, is going to be rather overkill.

We are up to about 132 or 133 of the 213 ex-Barry engines having steamed at my reckoning. Some others are not far off (2807, 45379, 47406 spring to mind) but if the final count goes much above 160, I will be quite surprised.

 

160 over nowt... is still a major achievement.

The thing that holds back the restorations now is their owners perseptions of having gold dust value in the first place. Sadly if a new build can be had for £2m there's not much hope for a scrap bulleid with a £400k asking price and a £1.5mn restoration ahead of it.

 

There have been a number of letters and articles in the heritage railway press recently regarding the future of the ex-Barry locos now that so much time has passed since their rescue (relatively speaking). Clearly some locos, by nature of their size or the fact that several have survived, stand a better chance of making it past the "break for spares" stage. One that probably won't is 2873, the boiler from which is at Tyseley and the remains of the rest of it at the SDR. However, given the number of 28xxs which have survived, it is likely that 2873 will at least have some legacy as a spares donor. However, there is no straight pattern to the Barry survivors listed in Broomhalla's post and some enthusiasts from a parallel universe might be amazed that rarities such as 7229, 42859 and 76077 are still in the state that they are in but of course its not just down to logic; it depends on who bought the loco from Barry and whether there is a buyer for it if ever they want to sell. I'm not surprised that so many 28xxs and Merchant Navies are still waiting as these are large, and in the case of MNs, complex, expensive restoration projects for anyone to tackle. The BR standard 2-6-4s are really useful and will surely work in time but it is likely that a few of the other locos will not since the availability of reliable new builds such as 82045 will become the preferred economical way of providing reliable steam hauled heritage trains. I'm certain that most of the locos on the list will one day run but time is running out for them. As for 2807 (not on the list but mentioned by John), we have been working on it since 1981 (in various ways) but the loco is now at Llangollen and the boiler cladding is being trial fitted whilst the hydraulic and steam tests will take place soon. We expect 2807 to be working at Toddington from the start of the 2010 season and, like our colleagues with their long road to steaming their maroon 8F, we might just get some coal dust in our eyes. Now I understand that 2859 has a very good boiler........

 

Is the boiler that Tyseley have for sale originally from 2873? If so then it no longer looks like a mission impossible...


Keith

 

Restoration work was due to begin on 3855, but uts owner also owns 52322 which has recently had its problems on the ELR, so I guess that will push the start of restoration back a bit. QUOTE

3855 is progressing quite nicely behind the scenes. Terms have been agreed for the fabrication of a new tender tank and the necessary repairs to the tender frames and its reasonable to expect the tender restoration to be complete in 18 months give or take.
Parts acquisition continues currently on a weekly basis. When the majority of missing parts are to hand, only then loco will be stripped. I was 35 when i bought the loco and took the view that combining time and funding etc it would be a 7-10 yr restoration project. Which would take me to my early/mid 40's leaving 20 yrs to play with the loco.

As for 12322 i can't comment, other than to quote the hit single by Public Enemey 'don't believe the hype!'

 

A few people in ere might be too old for that :grin:

 

Other than the two mentioned here are there a couple of other 9F's in a poor state ? Moved to preserved 9f;s thread...

 

What actual benefit would that bring?

It would still produce a locomotive of impractical size for heritage railways, you would spend vast amounts on obtaining type approval, derogation etc for the national network that could probably go some way towards a conventional restoration, and all you would end up with is a bastardisation of a potentially useful locomotive.

 

To what end? If you intended to run it on Network Rail I assume you'd do away with the flangeless drivers which are the reason 9Fs are banned from NR - the rigid wheelbase would still be pretty long but the steering would be improved! But then the 4-8-0 is a great format for compounding so let's chuck the cylinders and redo the front-end completely! :tongue:

Foxy

 

Do make your mind up, if its of impractical size for Heritage railways (like a Bulleid pacific for instance) how is it in the same sentence a potentially useful locomotive ? if its also Banned from network rail.
In this form it could run mainline, and would be uniquely capable and its as close to a big freight slogger we will ever get on the network...
The time and money spent on type derogation ( confident you could establish a design speed of at least 60mph in the process) for this compared to the cost of a brand new boiler for a new build is i imagine very favourable. Only Tornado has got over the boiler hurdle... some think its the only one that will.

So in terms of Locomotives of class 7 or above that can be restored we have

More Bulleid pacifics - only a restored to original Merchant Navy would bring anything new to the party

the 47xx (which would potentially need a new boiler to be amongst the big hitters)

Another 8F (not quite in that league)
Thats it.... ?

There are of course a number of Plinthed Locos - The 3 A4's,The 2 Duchesses, the King , Maggie Rose, Blue Peter, Green Arrow is a nearly.
Any two of which could be steamed for the cost of a new build ... My 'used to be a 9f' would cost less than some of these...

Foxy - who are you ! Chapeleon ? Chucking the cylinders would kind of defeat the object, and if new cylinders were in order then.... wait for it

it would of course br BR Caprotti !

 

Il est vrai! Je l'admets ....

I would just point out that there are those who believe Tornado generated her own weight in paperwork for the derogation process.....

Foxy

 

I like that one.

 

Bulleid pacifics aren't completely uneconomical for heritage railways; I have fired the 2 currently at Swanage just as economically as a standard 4 tank on occasions.

Do any current main line jobs require a big freight slogger? Most main line jobs that I have ever experienced require something that has a capable turn of speed and good acceleration from stops in order to fit in between other services. On lines that have a lower speed limit to suit something that's more of a slogger, I suspect the long fixed wheelbase would prove prohibitive.

I'm sorry, I realise its a discussion point at the moment rather than a proposal, but I fail to see any real role to fulfil?

Lest it be said I'm against the development of steam, I can see a purpose in the right project. Something along the lines of a modern, mixed traffic size loco, with appropriate modern enhancements. A 4-6-0 to take advantage of superior adhesive capacity than pacifics; sound familiar to anyone...?

 

As a discussion point about what to do with the ex Barry 9F's i think i have a decent point. In the wider picture it is really more subjective, the idea doesnt appeal to you and im sure your not alone. Also Im sure im not alone in liking the idea.

If there was a Mainline Permitted 9F at present i have no doubts it would be very much in demand and its 'acceleration from stops ' a great assett even if its permitted speed were only 60 or even 50mph.
As a 4-8-0 the 'long (16.5 ft) fixed wheelbase' would actually be no more of a hindrance than the current southern celebrity 48151, especially with thin flanges on the centre driving pairs, and with an axle weight of less than 18 tonnes i think the route availability would be pretty good.
a lot better than for a P2 OR A 47XX perhaps

 

Absolutely; in the same way as I happen to thinks the original Bulleid pacifics are among the finest locomotives built in this country, I know there are many who hold a contrary view!

 

Somewhat preditably ; I think his 2-8-2's would have been better with his own poppet valve gear to boot...

 

Are the remains of 2861/4115/5227 still at Barry & in a position where they can be viewed close up?

 

I last saw them on Xmas day last year, they were all positioned down the side of the former engine shed. And not viewable from the public? access road.

Great Western