If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

What is the long term future for the unrestored Barry engine

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by 45698 MARS, Dec 13, 2008.

  1. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2007
    Messages:
    2,849
    Likes Received:
    2,362
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Researcher/writer and composer of classical music
    Location:
    Between LBSCR 221 and LBSCR 227
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I quite agree. I live less than an hour's drive from the Glos-Warwick line, and being a Southern fan, am very much looking forward to seeing 35006 steam, but let's be honest - it isn't going to be stretched very much at 25mph on a fairly modestly-graded line. It's true that when the Bluebell acquired 75027 back in 1968, a 4MT loco was viewed as too big, with small tank engines seen as ideal motive power for heritage lines. Now, of course, class 4 and 5 locos are seen as ideal right across the board, and the small tank engines that epitomised the Bluebell in the 1960s are of more limited use (although the Bluebell, to its credit, has found a niche for its older engines working shortish trains of older stock) However far one tries to look into the future, it's hard to think of any heritage line apart from perhaps the NYMR where a class 4 loco will ever be struggling to cope with traffic requirements. Trains might be longer and heavier on most lines now than they were on the Bluebell in 1968, but they are unlikely to be longer or heavier still in 20-30 years time, even if the economy picks up and more people want to travel on heritage lines.
     
  2. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    212
    I should have added the proviso that individuals are of course free to spend their money as they see fit, and if they feel moved to restore a "Merchant Navy" ( or "Channel Packets" as the class were known by enginemen at Bricklayers Arms...) then they are absolutely free so to do.

    It tends to be the less glamorous--but potentially more useful--out of ticket Heritage line engines that dont have a well established "support group" that tend to spend long periods in store due to the sheer cost of a "heavy general". Contrast on the SVR ( for instance..) Black 5 45110 that does not have a support group, and 42968 and 7812/7802 which do have well established support groups.

    Back on topic, the last ex-Barry loco still to steam on the SVR, 4150, makes good steady progress at Bewdley.

    46118
     
  3. Reading General

    Reading General Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 18, 2011
    Messages:
    6,081
    Likes Received:
    2,217
    dd that really, 45110 is quite a significant loco in terms of the 15 guinea special...
     
  4. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    212
    Indeed, and on the SVR forum it has been floated that a support group be formed for 45110, but no takers.

    ..."Just" another Black 5 I suppose....

    46118
     
  5. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Messages:
    3,967
    Likes Received:
    5,064
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    N.Ireland
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    However the 35025 website hasn't been updated since the loco arrived at Sellindge in 2007, and I think someone had commented on here some time ago to the effect that there had been no work on the loco since it arrived at Sellindge. The mainline plans will therefore probably have changed in the cold light of day!

    35010 and 35011 are (IMHO) unlikely to steam under their current ownership and locations, a sale of either of these locos may bring renewed activity and funds. Both locos have problems that will cost a lot of money to put right - 35010 requires a new cylinder and 35011 requires a new crank axle.

    35009 is 'stalled' at Bury while Ian Riley concentrates on his contract work and Black 5s, I think the 8 wheel tender and upgrading plan has been dropped - any restoration that does eventually take place will be to 'normal' condition.


    Keith
     
  6. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2005
    Messages:
    12,910
    Likes Received:
    1,387
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Birmingham
    Are there enough class 4 or 5 loco's to go around though ?, overhauling out of ticket loco's at certain lines would help those lines, but what about the others ?, say newer lines that are struggling for steam or any kind, granted a Merchant Navy is less than ideal, but still preferential to no steam.

    In an ideal world, the NYMR would use B1's and K1's, but you have to make the best of what's available, even if that means a Schools well off region or A4.

    Also does the argument about bigger loco's being uneconomical stack up ?, a class 4 being worked near it's limit has to work harder so consumes more fuel than it would on a shorter load, and over the length of it's ticket, how much additional wear is being caused to the motion ?, might not be immediately obvious comparing the fuel bill per week, but at the overhaul costs stage years later ?.

    If you had a Pannier and a Castle working load 8 for a number of years, I bet the Castle would be better mechanically.
     
  7. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,052
    Likes Received:
    4,665
    Occupation:
    Once computers, now part time writer I suppose.
    Location:
    SE England
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I'm sure it depends on specifics, but in 'Swindon Steam' Cook says that the Star to Castle conversions were justified by an estimate that the overhaul costs would be a penny a mile less because the boiler would be working at a lower evaporation rate.
     
  8. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Some of the Cl 8(F) locos are actually far more suitable for heritage lines than is commonly realised and certainly of far more use than mainline displaced Cl8P types if/when NR steam working comes to an end.

    The freight locos were designed for low speed slogging which generally means that they are very much at home at 25mph, will pull almost anything you put behind them, have lower axleloads than their larger passenger counterparts and are surprisingly economical.
     
    michaelh likes this.
  9. 46118

    46118 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2005
    Messages:
    4,043
    Likes Received:
    212
    Yes, I agree with you. I was really referring to the class 8 Pacifics such as the MN's. The GW 28xx/38xx or LMS 8F locomotives are indeed useful Heritage 25 mph motive power, and in most instances will not need to be worked too hard, which is good for their longevity!
    It was therefore somewhat surprising that one of the Turkish 8F's had no takers and has been re-exported. ( not wishing to take the thread off-topic!)

    46118
     
  10. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    26,103
    Likes Received:
    57,432
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    To be fair though, the economics of a major workshop where no doubt every sub-task was costed down to the penny per mile is rather different from the artisan world of locomotive restoration today, where costs are highly dependent on condition, whether skills exist in house, whether a volunteer can do a job or it needs contracting out or doing by paid staff etc - to all of which can be added the fact that more glamorous locos may "pay their way" by virtue of being easier to fund raise for even if they are more expensive to overhaul.

    I very much any railway, given a choice between say, a Castle and a Hall, either of which could do the required job but one of which will work harder, would make an overhaul decision based on the economics of overhauls from half a century ago, interesting though that might be as an academic study.

    Tom
     
  11. Fireline

    Fireline Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,179
    Likes Received:
    1,075
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    5668 arrived at the KESR today, so that is one Barry engine with a new future. The restoration will follow the restoration of 4253, so anyone hoping to see 56 run this weekend might be disappointed!
     
  12. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2006
    Messages:
    1,868
    Likes Received:
    1,588
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    White Rose County
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Great news! Well done to the 4253 Group; they have done wonders so far with their 42xx so I'm sure we will see 5668 restored in a few years time if they have anything to do with it.
     

Share This Page