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What's the news on 35027?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Matt35027, Nov 14, 2009.

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  1. tfftfftff86

    tfftfftff86 Member

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    Someone ought to write a book about the 4472 and 6100 sagas, but it probably won't happen because so much would be based on hearsay, and then it's a fine line between criticism and libel.

    BTW, daming, damming, damning; who's right? (Moi, je crois)
     
    tfftfftff86, Nov 18, 2009
    #21
  2. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Well-Known Member

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    I think my version is wrong, it's 'damning', I think. Anyway, I expect that in years to come, the truth about 4472 and 6100 will slowly trickle out
     
    Matt35027, Nov 18, 2009
    #22
  3. williamfj2

    williamfj2 Member

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    To throw my 2p in, the fact that Scotsman is in need of a MAJOR MAJOR overhaul must say something (of course part of the problem was that Scotsman was thrashed until the NRM bought her) plus the farce with Royal Scot as well.
    I'm not suggesting that Southall overhauls are rubbish or anything along those lines, BUT I'm merely pointing out what appears to have happened, of course that could be based on chinese whispers.
     
    williamfj2, Nov 18, 2009
    #23
  4. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Well-Known Member

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    If you trawl through the entire 6100 thread, many people are more than suggesting that Southall's work is sub-standard
     
    Matt35027, Nov 18, 2009
    #24
  5. LN850

    LN850 Member

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    That's a bit ironic when you consider all the hype about how mainline locos are supposed to be overhauled to a high standard!:)
     
    LN850, Nov 18, 2009
    #25
  6. ady

    ady Well-Known Member

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    Do think we should not trow out doubts about Southall without proper venication of sorts?
     
    ady, Nov 18, 2009
    #26
  7. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Well-Known Member

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    The example used by many is 4472 and the state she was in during 2003/4, counter-argument for this was that 4472 would be sent out to run a tour when she wasn't fit to do so (because of the fact that she's Scotsman), making any problems worse. But also 34067 is based there and she's been proven as a reliable performer. 70013 is based there when she's working in the South Eastern region come to think of it, and we all know how good Cromwell is.

    I'm still very much in two minds about Southall
     
    Matt35027, Nov 18, 2009
    #27
  8. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin Part of the furniture

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    Don't forget that Southall has two elements - the WCRC bit and the former FSS bit. Now it wouldn't surprise me to see volunteers working in both bits, so it is all down to the direction they are given.

    Regards,

    Dan
     
    Dan Hamblin, Nov 18, 2009
    #28
  9. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Three - there is the GWRPG too.
     
    Martin Perry, Nov 19, 2009
    #29
  10. michaelh

    michaelh Part of the furniture

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    HHHHHHMMMMMMMM - that's a brief but meaningful question Martin............
     
    michaelh, Nov 19, 2009
    #30
  11. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    potted history

    GWRPG have for many years been trying to secure a base at Southall . owners of 9682, 4115, and 2885 . For some reason the leases have been short so it seems like they have been doing the hokey cokey with the place but you have to admire their persistence and success in rebuilding 9682 and Birkenhead

    The old Wheeldrop shed became 4472's from around 1987. I'm not sure if any other engines were based there but 4472 was prepared for it's Australian adventure there and it was home . What organisation was paying rent for it I don't know. With the ownership change to Tony Marchington Southall remained it's home . my understanding is Mr Kennington remained as it's Engineer and also made her into an A3 GTI !That overhaul cost around £800k . As we all know the Marchington era came to an end and the engine entered the national collection leaving an engineering team and base at Southall . Enter 6100 with a pot of lottery cash(I think )and one David Ward being involved I believe with both Bressingham and 4472. There was a tender process which Southall won

    I'm not quite sure how 35027 & 35022 came to be at Southall for overhaul following their acquisition from SLL although presumably an engineering group with the pedigree of 6100 & 4472 would look good

    The final entry into the Southall story is West Coast , presumably and not unreasonably looking for a London base of their own , Southall was the sensible candidate

    Now i'm presuming short leases are given by NR becuase Southall may yet have some future use for them or even another TOC

    and here we are today with 4472 swallowing a kings ranson to overhaul her again . Reading some of the published material the GTi version of the A3 was a bit too much for her

    6100 is now at Crewe and has been on and off but certainly since the SSS2 gala and having changed ownership from Bressingham. all that is heard is the darkest of mutterings . The boiler of 35022 is at Crewe and again we see mutterings that the chassis will follow and all may not return to southall (mutterings based on no known fact it should be stressed)

    ref 34067 I think she is looked after by John Bunch whilst away , certainly I'm led to believe whilst under Ian Riley's ownership, and I believe that is still the case although if anyone knows any better please put me right . WCRC also have a proven enginerring team who look after their engines , witness 46115 , 48151, 5690

    So there we have it , which thread am I in ? oh yes 35027. I really wish that one day the story from all sides comes out as i think it would be fascinating . However I don't think it ever will
     
    Sidmouth, Nov 19, 2009
    #31
  12. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Martin, really informative, could you tell us more about Scotsman GTi?

    (I feel like a 6 year old kid sitting on his granddad's knee wanting to hear more war stories (tongue very firmly in cheek btw ;) ))
     
    Matt35027, Nov 19, 2009
    #32
  13. Dan Hamblin

    Dan Hamblin Part of the furniture

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    Effectively an A4 without the streamlining if I remember rightly. The Boiler was an ex-A4 one with the safety valves set to 250psi (the A3's used 220psi) and the cylinders bores were enlarged.

    Can someone confirm please!

    Regards,

    Dan
     
    Dan Hamblin, Nov 19, 2009
    #33
  14. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Well-Known Member

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    wow, no wonder she broke
     
    Matt35027, Nov 19, 2009
    #34
  15. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    wow, no wonder she broke

    Well, before people start using their 20/20 hindsight to get too critical, I wonder if there was any engineering basis for believing that this uprating would be unwise? Were the A4s mechanically uprated in any way compared to the A3s, to handle the extra power?
     
    61624, Nov 19, 2009
    #35
  16. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Well-Known Member

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    Well I believe there were differences in the steam circuit, I can't be more specific than that because I don't know. Didn't the A4s have slightly different inside cylinder valve gear?
     
    Matt35027, Nov 19, 2009
    #36
  17. gwr4090

    gwr4090 Part of the furniture

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    Any idea what the trading name is of the company/organisation which has been undertaking the overhauls at Southall ? I have seen reference to the London Main Line Steam Group, but I am not sure if this is the trading organisation or just a supporting group.

    http://www.pvsonline.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=2382
     
    gwr4090, Nov 20, 2009
    #37
  18. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Yes you are quite right. There is an excellent DVD (can't remember what it's called at the moment though) where details are given by Roland about how the A3 was upgraded.
     
    green five, Nov 20, 2009
    #38
  19. green five

    green five Resident of Nat Pres

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    Thanks for that Martin.

    34067 is looked after by JB and a several ex-MHR people from what I could see last week on the Faversham trip..

    With regards 35027 and 35022 I heard much the same last week. I heard that they won't be returning to Southall when finished but will be based on a Preserved line along with 6100 and a couple of other big loco's, one of them returning to steam next year. How true it is time will only tell.
     
    green five, Nov 20, 2009
    #39
  20. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Well-Known Member

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    I'll be interested to see where Royal Scot and Port Line are based then. Guessing maybe 35027 may operate out of the Swanage or Mid Hants. Bit of a whimsy here but if the Bluebell complete the extension to East Grinstead before 35027 enters traffic, she can operate from there and return home after a decade away but I shouldn't think the Bluebell will want to look after a mainline loco that is really too big for their line.
     
    Matt35027, Nov 20, 2009
    #40
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