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Whitby to York Rail Link

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 61624, Sep 29, 2014.

  1. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    There is a Facebook Group "Whitby to York Rail Link" that is trying to gain support for the reinstatement of the Rillington -Pickering Rail Link , and then onward via the Esk Valley Line, as a means of reducing journey times to York from Whitby. I believe that if this were to happen it would be the beginning of the end for the NYMR as a heritage line, and whilst I also believe that the possibility is remote, I think the point has to be strongly made. There is a far more viable alternative in the form of improving the Esk Valley Line, or even a reinstatement of the Battersby-Picton route that would achieve the same end.

    The promotors of the FBgroup, however, are hell bent on the Rillington-Pickerinng -NYMR solution and have banned anyone who presents an alternative view or disagrees with them (including me!).

    I have therefore set up an alternative group - "Not the Whitby-York Rail Link" for anyone to express their view either way. Please can I ask anyone reading this to look at the original fight and consider joining the new one, with the assurance that I will not censor it!
     
  2. lil Bear

    lil Bear Well-Known Member

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    How would any Battersby - Picton re-opening help assist the connection to York?

    The Esk Valley Line curves North doesn't it, but to connect with York trains would need to connect South via Northallerton?
     
  3. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    The Battersby-Picton line would need to have a southbound chord added.

    I'm not that knowlegable abot the railway map of N. Yorkshire, but others believe that there are ways of accelerating times from Middlesborough to York. I don't believe that going via Pickering, along a line with curves laid out for horse drawn carriages, and now used for 25mph running, is the way forward.
     
  4. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I'd be losing too much sleep over this one. Is there really the demand for such a service? I can't ever see it happening when you look a the chaos it would create in the centre of Pickering?
     
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  5. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    I've always thought that a good way to start would be to remove the reverse at Battersby. Relaying to Picton is a non starter for the revenue generated, plus as others have said you are heading away from York.
    The link to Rillington is another non starter due to the cost. More dreamers with their fingers in their ears singing la la.
     
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  6. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Is Alf Roberts involved by any chance? :D
     
  7. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    To avoid reversal at Battersby, given the existing alignments and gradients, would involve a chord on a sharp curve and a steep gradient, or else a very long chord. With DMUs, reversal needn't add much delay. RTT shows four or five minutes, and that could be pared down a bit if there was a will to do so.
     
  8. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    It isn't the fact that the proposal is highly unlikely to come about, it's more the fact that there are some very-anti NYMR individuals on it, and they are trying to put the railway in a bad light, for example by insinuating that it is on the brink of financial collapse, and banning anyone associated with the railway from posting any form of truth. There is a lot of potential for making funding bodies nervous, at a time when (like every other railway) it needs to be able to bring in all the external funds it can. Ideally, we need non-NYMR associated people to join and put forward our side of the story, but we could do with them joining the alternative site as well to voice support.
     
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  9. ADB968008

    ADB968008 Guest

    Why is connecting the NYMR to the mainline on a direct route from York such a bad idea ?

    I would have considered this to be a brilliant idea, though possibly to detriment of the battersby - Middlesbrough route... Why did Beeching do it this way around anyway ?
     
  10. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    I would imagine Beeching chose the EVL to survive because it serves a greater conurbation in Middlesbrough than York and so more likely to provide traffic. The route via Pickering was lightly used in comparison.

    The Rillington-Pickering section provides a whole raft of problems to overcome - notably the need for a level crossing at the A170, and two further level crossings in the heart of Pickering. The Rillington -Pickering line offers little in the way of scenic interest and I suspect that the increased fares resulting from it would not be attractive to the market. Then you have to factor in the complexities of co-existing with modern stock needing to run at higher speeds to offer a sensible journey time to Whitby, and the possibility this will undermine NYMR services. Finally, I don't believe that a great deal of additional traffic would ensue. There might be a few railtours a year, a la Swanage - the NYMR doesn't currently get railtour traffic because of the remoteness of the EVL makes journey times too long from the south - but I don't see that as justification for 6-7 extra miles of line and the problems mentioned above.

    Yes, Whitby is a holiday destination and so a few passengers might use the connection for this reason, but nowadays most people seem to prefer to travel by car or coach. An extended Whitby -Rillington line would serve a combined population of around 22,000- it's not many to justify the expenditure on a new link when around 14,000 of those already have a rail service.
     
  11. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't waste your time engaging with them.
    Rail reopening is (thankfully) something which is happening. But it requires a lot of local support and a LOT of government money, local and central. Schemes which are going ahead now have been on the cards for decades and subject to numerous reports, etc.
    Also, local stakeholders, councilors, etc., tend to have a very good idea of who is bringing money into the area, as the NYMR is, very successfully.
    No one at all is going to take their proposal seriously.
     
  12. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    As I understand it, the line via Battersby was reprieved because the buses couldn't handle the school traffic.

    Surely the real question is whether there's actually justification for a normal public service from York to Whitby, either in it's own right, or even more once the reinstatement costs have been factored in.
     
  13. Standard 4MT

    Standard 4MT New Member

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    Regardless of routes quicker to York, the main reason for this line is Rillington to Pickering. He expects the NYMR just to let Main line trains run on it, has said so many lies it's unbelievable but they can still damage. I know of around 20 accounts that have been banned, no warning, for trying to show costs, routes and ideas that some are just plain errors, such as doubling the track on NYMR but not in any correct manner just adding another run of track to Grosmont but no link to steam line, no mention of how or stations or getting through tunnel. A very strange mad hatter with anyone who points anything out is classed troublemaker and is removed. This has all the
    markings of possible future problems with funding for
    the NYMR with his 900 signatures but that says to York which he isn't really interested in. Living in
    Scarborough with a great York service, still think that
    this is just never going to happen, as the NYMR own the trackbed etc and are not bust, and can carry more than the 300 passengers per train as 420 have been loadings on many Whitby trains and % loadings
    are up again, where will all these main line trains even fit in? and couldn't run all year due to track
    maintenance, by all means have a look at his Forum to see for yourselves but most posts alternative or other posts have been deleted of people that didn't
    agree.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
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  14. Bramblewick

    Bramblewick New Member

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    I just found this gem:

    "Everyone seems to be obsessed with costs and equipment, routes and signalling! I thought I would add a few "what ifs"!
    What if: NYMR ceased to exist?
    What if: Northern Rail close EVL?
    WHAT IF: Europe gave Whitby £3bn to spend how they please?
    What if: Whitby & Pickering spent it on the Rillington Jcn & line?
    What if: TPE ceased operations to Scarborough? "
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 30, 2014
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  15. Standard 4MT

    Standard 4MT New Member

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    People aren't obsessed they are just trying to point out a few facts that this Mr Kipling likes to gloss over and say the will of the people and his group will see this carried out. He also after a recent meeting at NYMR said they have given him backing, will work with him, and wouldn't say no to running the service, they would also help fianance this project. All his statements, some now "invisible", have all been copied, in case of any future action, through the lies and other statements are required. He fails to answer any questions that don't fit in with his and his teams ideas. He just ignores them and ticks like to any posts agreeing or pleasing him. Evidently anyone that mentions costs, routes, problems or feasibility studies are branded troublemakers, and they should go elsewhere. So I presume he can carry on with his outbursts, and his research. But if you don't tell people the whole truth and where he wants line to run, how can they vote yes to it? The Poll did say Whitby to York, now the Whitby bit seems to be fading. Descriptions of Whitby are not what I recognise about the place.
     
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  16. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    Why get so upset about something on facebook?
     
  17. 61624

    61624 Well-Known Member

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    It's the ability to spread disinformation about the NYMR unchallenged that bothers me. I've spent over 40 years as a volunteer there and do not want to see it potentially damaged by the ramblings of some who seems to have an obsessive hatred of the railway. When his bubble bursts, who's he going to blame? He seems to have the ear of the local press, although I believe that they are starting to look at the alternative views.
     
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  18. richards

    richards Well-Known Member

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    Without knowing the background or details of this issue, part of the NYMR's press relations role should be to correct/re-inform the media to avoid "dis-information" being spread. The media can be quick to jump at sensationalist or "latest" news, but their judgement of the quality of some sources can be helped by regular contact.
     
  19. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    If there are demonstrable lies that are actually or potentially damaging to the NYMR, what about seeking a court injunction restraining the perpetrator(s)? It would cost money in legal fees but those might be a good investment.
     
  20. ilvaporista

    ilvaporista Part of the furniture

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    There is usually only one winner in these types of legal actions and it's not the claimant or defendant.
     

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