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WHR/FR news

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Sheff, Mar 25, 2011.

  1. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    The price wasn't too high to begin with, but mysteriously increased once we'd expressed an interest in it. We carried out a detailed study of all the options, which included running all WHR trans through to Minffordd; a new joint station at Llyn Bach (Coop/Wilkos); and my personal favourite, a new station (Porthmadog New New New) north of the new bypass at Penymount with direct road access and extensive car and coach parking, with FR trains running over the CTRL, a third platform for the WHHR and turning Harbour Station into a museum with halt status.
     
  2. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    I like your personal favourite, but it would have had most FR supporters in a tiz, I would think.
     
  3. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Lucky I didn't mention the overall roof, then...
     
  4. 45669

    45669 Part of the furniture

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  5. Foxhunter

    Foxhunter Member

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    These time lapse videos are hypnotic! Thanks very much for posting them - talk about rapid progress!

    Foxy
     
  6. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    That machine with the grab on the end of the jib is like some prehistoric bird picking up the big rocks and creating it's nest..
     
  7. darkangel

    darkangel New Member

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    Does anyone know what the rebuild of Prince is going to entail?

    And...............apart from the mechanical side, are the asthetics to be addressed?

    To me & I think many others the locomotive looks disproportionate, I do realise when the loco was re-built with the big smokebox etc it was to improve performance but when you compare him to Palmerston you realise how far away from the traditional England engine profile it has moved.
     
  8. Selsig

    Selsig Member

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    I think returning Prince much closer to pre-preservation (lets say, since "original" condition is so far removed from even the 1945 look) condition is impractical - its not just a cosmetic exercise - The relocation of the safety valves back into the cab may be feasable, but shrinking the smokebox would require removal of the superheaters, which would in turn require new tube and throatplates for the boiler. Then the whole superstructure was raised in the 1980 rebuild, to accomodate the new frames under the tank and around the firebox, and to give the drivers a bit more headroom...

    Prince has evolved continuously from 1836 to date - to undo that work would be, it might be considered, a retrograde stepin terms of history. Would you reccomend rebuilding Merddin Emrys back to pre - preservation profile? - she looks right, but when compared to Livingston Thompson, has definitely been on the steroids. The same can be said of Prince and Palmerston.

    Nonetheless, Chris Jones has done a superb job over the last 15 years or so of removing some of the most glaring aesthetic ballsups that the loco gained in the 1980 rebuild, and should be applauded, but that is further evolution of the loco.

    What we could *really* do with is both Welsh Pony back to give an impression of a Large England (though almost certainly still smaller than Prince.....) and a replica of, say, Mountaineer, to represent the Small Englands at the start of their careers. Finance and storage space, and a volunteer group to tend, fund and do any overhauls permitting, of course.
     
  9. meeee

    meeee Member

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    The thing is with Prince is that it has been rebuilt to fulfil a role that no longer exists for it. We have so many locos now that thrashing a little shunting engine about on 6 car trains seems a bit unnecessary when other locos are available to do the job better. So really its future lies as part of the heritage fleet. In it's present form it sticks out like a sore thumb though.

    I'm sure some softening up could be done in the short term, especially the safety valves and the ugly running boards. It is not beyond the wit of man to convert it back, more difficult things have been accomplished. Plus if someone gives enough money I'm sure it would happen, just look at the pointless t-y-b footbridge.

    Tim
     
  10. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    It's all just so awful, isn't it Timmy?
     
  11. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    'punctuation'? Naughty naughty ;)
     
  12. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    I don't get this. Prince isn't 'original', its a working engine. Princess is original (as at 1945 anyway) and it isn't a working engine.

    Do you understand the choice?

    Any loco that old that is still working is not, and never will be, in any sense 'original' - what is wonderful is that you can still enjoy it and ride behind it (or will be able to shortly).
     
  13. MuzTrem

    MuzTrem Member

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    Without wishing to denigrate the work of Mr. Jones, I'd argue that the best thing to do now with Prince would be to restore it to its 1980 condition. It might not have been the engine's prettiest form, but at the time it was intended to fit the engine to allow it to be used regularly on 5-coach trains, as required by the peak service of the time. In that sense, Prince in 1980 can be considered the ultimate evolution of the England design. Now, as Tim points out, train lengths have increased to the point where Prince really has no role on regular services. The cosmetic mods in recent years have attempted to make the engine look Victorian again, but she'll never really look right alongside Palmerston or Welsh Pony. In any case, 1980 was now thirty years ago so I think it has reached the stage where it can be considered "historic" in its own right.
    If Welsh Pony were to be restored and a replica Mountaineer built (now that's something I'd love to see!), Prince in 1980 condition could then present the final chapter in the England story. As has rightly been pointed out many times, the history of the FfR didn't end in 1946. Prince restored to 1980 condition would acknowledge the railway's modern heritage; IMHO, that would be more interesting than its current pseudo-Victorian state.
     
  14. darkangel

    darkangel New Member

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    Whilst everyone's opinions are welcome, I was hoping for a more definitive response from our esteemed F.R. spokes persons.

    There is nothing on the society webpage giving information about what has been decided as to exactly what form the Old Gent will take when he emerges from Boston Lodge. I am guessing that the work will focus on getting the loco into first class mechanical condition for the event & maybe some sympathetic cosmetic improvements might be made should time & funds allow?In my humble opinion if nothing else is to be done for the look of the engine, the red should be given "The elbow" & the loco returned to F.R. green as per the ladies.
     
  15. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    There is no more definitive information. It's not a conspiracy. Nothing is set in stone, let alone what colour it will be. We quite like rolling out locos in black for a bit, possibly lining them out in BR MT livery and then painting them in various shades of green. Or works grey, then dark blue, or black and then Brunswick Green, or green and then red.

    I'm sure you get the picture.
     
  16. darkangel

    darkangel New Member

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    I'm sure you get the picture.[/QUOTE]

    Oh yes........
     
  17. alanfrombangor

    alanfrombangor New Member

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    Does anyone have timings for Saturday's FR/WHR runs in connection with the UK Railtours charter? I'll be at Portmeirion for a Flickr meet that day, would be good to photograph the narrow gauge during the trip.
     
  18. meeee

    meeee Member

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    There are two charters and no public service trains on the 18th Feb.

    First of all Taliesin and Lyd on the UK Railtours train.

    Don't have the full timetable to hand but here is a rough idea.

    Dep Port Ecs 10:50
    Arr Bff 12:05

    Dep Bff 12:30
    Arr Port 13:40

    Dep Port 15:30
    Arr Bff 16:45

    Dep Bff Ecs 17:00
    Arr Port 18:10

    Also Britomart is out on another private charter.

    Port - Tyb 13:15
    Tyb -Port 15:15
    Port - Beddgelert 16:05
    Beddgelert - Port 19:00

    Hope that helps.
    Tim
     
  19. david1984

    david1984 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Im going on Holiday for a week to Morfa Bychain in late April and was wondering, does anyone know what state Porthmadog station is likely to be by then ?.
     
  20. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Fully operational. Pilot loco arrangements for WHR trains as last year. All WHR trains run through to Harbour.
     

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