WHR General Discussion.

I'm sure there are ways of makeing them louder.....

 

I have just registered after seeing the new open forum today. I'm glad that Chris, who is a director of the WHHR, has stated more or less that the proposed WHHR service to Pont Croesor is not going to happen.
Quote - and is just one of the reasons why the various ideas for Pont Croesor shuttles werent realistic - unquote.

I think we should forget about getting onto WHR metals and concentrate on what we do best. If in the future we are given the opportunity to travel towards Beddgelert, great - but lets allow the Festiniog to finish the job first!

Russell

 

I think your getting me confused with another Chris, Russell! I believe he might be a member but i havent seen him post for a while. My apologies for any confusion.

 

Oops! Apologies to both!

 

Noisy Garratts

Those of you who want noise need a run with 87, which has an improved drafting arraingment - including a Lempour frount end and makes three times more noise than 143 and K1 do. You must also bear in mind, though, that we have a number of speed restrictions, especially round the lower spirals so the engines are do have more in them. We also have been instructed to accelerate gradually because of the fire problems so the fireworks are less impressive. Also remember that the Rheidol has lots of cliffs and cuttings that amplify to the engine noise for the traveller that the WHR does not have.

So in Summer K1 has a less capacity and operates very hard, but as a compound the exhaulst is quieter from the low pressure end, as does also effect steam production, as more blower is required to keep the fire bright on the easier sections, but also make many other noises that can drow itself out. 143 has the original drafting but also leaks a lot and so is less audable. 87 has the Lempour and is the beast for sound.

Owen - fireman

 

Never heared of a Lempour front end, what's the difference between Lempour and Lempor?

 

Tut-tut William, you are being a Silly Billy... you know, or should know, that Owen is dyslexic - and, even if he wasn't, a misspelt word or two (or more) doesn't detract from what he was saying...

Anyway, what's this heared word all about - you know, the one YOU put in your criticism...

 

Strikes me there is a real oppurtunity right this minute for the FR and WHR(64) to let bygones be bygones and move forward.
I`m sure this won`t happen because of egos/politics. I`m beginning to think both groups really deserve each other and the mire in which you both wallow...
If either group thinks this post is a bit cryptic that just about somes up your respective self indulgences, shame on the lot of you.

 

And what benefit to the FR would having the WHHR onside bring? They have had 45 years to rebuild the railway and have failed utterly. Now someone else has rebuilt it, they expect to be allowed to use it. If the '64 Co had sided with the FR in the first place rather than getting in bed with Gwynedd Council to rebuild a maximum of four or five miles of track, we wouldn't have the acrimony we see today. It is the WHHR's poor business decisions that have left them isolated in Beddgelert Siding.

If the majority of the Tremadog Road people genuinely want to play on a larger stage (which I sincerely doubt), it is up to them to fit in with the FR and offer a plan with genuine benefits for the FR. Bluntly, the WHHR is of no consequence to the FR and its operation of the RhE. They are just a distraction.

The FR has plenty of heritage locos and rolling stock that operated on the original line (and are much older than Russell) and a heritage coach runs on every service train already.

The ball is firmly in the WHHR's court. If they want to come to the party they could make a start by ending their infantile campaign of disinformation and taking down their absurd posters denigrating the FR.

 

Well it takes two to make peace and I must say that your post isn't exactly an olive branch.

 

And i of course, agree. R

 

A somewhat biased viewpoint....

Given that the Garraway-era FR was adamantly opposed to the reinstatement of the WHR, and the FR only changed its tune when the '64 company looked like finally getting the go-ahead when Gwynedd Council did a U-turn and decided to support the reinstatement instead of their previous opposition, your view seems a tad biased. As an outsider not involved with either line, it certainly looked like the FR muscling in to gain the benefit of the '64 company's many years of patient negotiation.

On a purely business basis, the FR doesn't need the WHHR onside. In terms of goodwill, they could make a few concessions without it costing them much more than the few humble pies they would have to consume. Heritage railways need to be run in a business-like fashion, but that should not be their only criteria.

Richard

 

Surely only time will tell who made the correct business decisions will it not? Not all the FR`s gambles are paying off are they?
The WHR (railway not the WHHR) could still turn round and bite the FR`s bottom.

 

I think someone at the time was watching too much Dallas !! Most of you know my position regarding the WHR. Never in my knowledge has a railway preservation group done what the FR did to the WHR 64. This was an unfair, cold, calculated, business, spite orientated decision not belonging to the railway preservation movement, this is contrary to my idea of what railway preservation is all about. Has anyone seen the slightest, minutest, microscopic sign of an apology, no, nothing. I believe there is an culprit and until that apology is forthcoming there can be no moves towards an reconciliation. The FR is totally to blame for whats happened, everyone knows it, but won't admit it. Untill the FR admits to having crossed the line, there can be no real move forward.

 

I think we forget at times how important goodwill is. Whilst heritage lines need to be run in a business like fashion very few would survive without general goodwill of the public in either volunteering or donating. In the main donations may be from a particular railways supporters but it is not exclusivly so. Look how much the the Steam Railway appeals have raised for different causes over the years. Much of that is probably from general railway enthusiasts rather than the supporters of just a particular line or engine. I am sure the Talyllyn are hoping that is the case seeing that Dolgoch is the subject of the latest appeal in Steam Railway

Look how much has been donated to build the WHR over the last few years to build both the line and fund coaching stock etc. I am sure much of that has again come from general railway enthusiasts and presumably they may may asked to contribute more before everything is finished.

 

Truth be told there is a lot of good will between the 2 sides, its just that a few saddo's like to stir things up on here

 

Brakes

Slight change of topic, but why have the WHHR decide to go with air brakes? Weren't all the original WHR stock vacuum braked? I'm sure the air pump is a later addition to Russel.

I have no involvement with the FR or WHR other than I like riding on them, but it strikes me that in 30-40 years time all this boring and counter productive politics will have been forgotten - so why can't we bring the process forward and forget about it all now and move forward! Politics is the most annoying parts of railway preservation and many thousands of willing volunteers have been put off getting involved in the past and unfortunately many more will in the future.

 

Simply because there is a lot that's going to happen in the next 30-40 years !! There has been a serious moral injustice done and until it has been rectified the problem stays, it's all too easy to say 'let's be freinds and forget it`, sounds like a cop out to me, more in the intrests of the WHR !! When the WHR 64 or WHHR whatever you want to call them have their just rewards for all the effort they put into the project before the dirty tricks department ripped it from them, then their will be calm and not before !!! If you think that the WHR can carry on as if nothing happened, then forget it. In some ways justice is already being done as the re-construction of the WHR is quickly turning into a fiasco and the image of the FR, ready to fall.

 

Well as someone who is not a member of the FR, WHR or WHHR, and with no other reason to be biased, my view is that the FR are well on their way to completing an enormous restoration project that if not already, will in time become the envy of many other heritage railways.

Chris