WSR GWR175 Finale - 30 Sept / 1 - 3 October

WSW. Are there any images of the Leigh and Kentsford passing loops on your site?

 

Only a pic of the front of Kentsford Box: http://www.wsr.org.uk/cgi-bin/gallery8a.cgi?h=Snapshot&p=oldpix/pre1971/kentsford_wsra
but lots of stuff in Ian Coleby's superb book "The Minehead Branch 1848-1971" and no doubt in other WSR books.

Both were capable of being switched out so the sections to Williton from Blue Anchor or Crowcombe were either short or long sections as determined by the volume of traffic.

I'd imagine any future loops would be fully automatic and not especially "heritage" either.

Steve

 

The book is out of print and I would doubt, given its present pre-occupations, that there are any plans to re-instate the loops as the railway wouldn't have any use for them excepting during galas! Even then the additional line occupancy implied by having the loops would require additional rolling stock, more volunteers and what have you. Nice dream though.

Regards

 

You clearly know more about future WSR policy thinking than do I.

However, I understand the likelihood of re-instatement is very much on the future development list. The loop(s) would greatly increase efficient occupancy of the Branch at all times which is needed before seriously considering the introduction of regular services to and from the mainline at all times of the year, whether a Gala day or not. The loop(s) would not be re-instated simply for special events.

Steve

 

As I said, I'm not familiar with galas on the West Somerset, so thanks for the info, WSW. What you describe makes me wonder what posters like 60, 63 & 77 are on about.
If the lightly loaded trains that Orion observed are indeed reflected in lower ticket sales than in the last couple of years (which is yet to be corroborated, of course), I'd put it down not primarily to the weather forecasting, but to the decline of the "Tornado side-effect" that put preserved railways in general in the minds of people looking for a day out, plus the rise of "cuts consciousness" that the government is bringing about.

 

4323 tickets were sold were for the 2010 Autumn Gala compared with 5628 for the same event in 2009. No doubt we will each have our own thoughts on the decline. The Railway seem to think the rainy weather put people off. Hmmm.

Steve

 

I'm sure it's the combination of a few factors which has led to the lower figures of this year to last and we can all probably come up with 3 or 4 major things that have contributed.

I think the main thing to remember here is that these days loadings on preserved railways do not consist of a majority of enthusiasts like we all are on this forum. Its families and couples etc looking for a day out who fill the trains for the most part. Of course us enthusiasts are going to want to see variety in the engines, timetable etc etc but its the families that make the difference to the loadings.

Most of us enthusiasts that do go to galas and travel on the trains rather than just standing in a field filming would probably come regardless of weather - but if you're a family looking for something to do for the day turning up to go on a steam railway in cold wet weather probably isn't high on the list of choices. Its these people that make the difference not us enthusiasts.

 

My photos from my visit on Sunday are now on my fotopic site.

http://paulgildersleve.fotopic.net/

The previous poster was spotted at Stogumber late Sunday afternoon!!

Cheers,

Paul

 

The previous poster was also spotted at Stogumber with saw feet from his long Sunday afternoon walk ;-)

Was good to see you Paul... nice shots of the King on Sunday afternoon. I think we must have literally missed each other by seconds at Yard Bridge after 5542 left Stogumber

Not many pics in the sun to be had but here's one



If only the sun had come out intime for this one :-(



It had been out moments earlier..... such is life!

 

Just returned from a week down at Watchet and four days at the Gala.The weather was terrible on Friday but the timetable in the morning meant we could shelter from the rain without missing too much.The Gala ran well to time and was most enjoyable. I think the weather forecasts put some people off which is a pity but the glorious sunshine on saturday and sunday afternoon made up for it.Well done to all concerned.
Incidentally well done too to the Williton Parish Council for organising the WSR photo competition at the Parish Hall.The standard of entries was high and it was well worth a visit.I actually got a commendation for one of my pictures so I was quite pleased.I hope the organisers consider a repeat next year.
I have now uploaded my pictures of the gala to my website at http://www.steamgalore.co.uk/

 

have added some more shots.

http://michael527.fotopic.net/c1903814.html

 

One thing I really enjoyed seeing was the Big 2 passing each other.... it was especially nice on the Friday at Crowcombe when both ran into the station at the same time under power a truely awesome site... sadly no footage of that but I do have a shot from them crossing at Williton

 

Oh dear - that's quite a decline in numbers. I thought it was quiet even on the Saturday when the weather was reasonable in that I could get on any train and always find a window seat. The previous weekend at the Severn Valley one was lucky to get a seat anywhere on a train. Blaming the weather is too easy - there are other factors I think. For the first time in 10 years I actually questioned whether it was worth a 300 mile round trip. I did still make the trip and did enjoy it but there were some disappointing aspects to this gala:

1) The new timetable works well enough but it's boring. One train an hour in each direction that travels the whole length of the line and stops at every station does not make for an interesting day. Just look at what the Severn Valley do - their timetable is a work of art and what makes the day so interesting is the variety of different workings you get during the course of the day. The WSR have done a number of shuttles covering part of the line before - and I have the working timetables to prove it! Furthermore why no double heading? It's one of the best features of a gala for me. I know some say it shouldn't be overdone but that doesn't mean none at all! As others have said the whole idea of a gala should be to do something different.

2) The locomotive line up was not so interesting this time. How many times have we seen 5542 and 6024 on the line? They hardly count as "visitors". Why THREE small prairie tanks, two of which were relegated to minor duties when I visited? Ironically for a GWR gala the most interesting loco was the Black 5 "George Stephenson"

I just hope the organisers can come up with something a little more interesting next year or numbers may continue to decline.

 

Just to pick up on some of the points mentioned in the discussion to date
As David 4090 reported earlier 5542 had a problem with blown cylinder packing which caused the problem which needed her to be rescued. That was quickly resolved and I can confirm that she is back in fine form having had the pleasure of her company on a Steam Enginemans Course on Friday of this week. Steamed very well all day and coped with us amateur drivers and firemen very well. Smashing engine and I really enjoyed the chance to drive and fire her. Very economical on coal and water during the day.

The weather! - this is really pot luck - the wife and I have had glorious weather in the main for our few days away this week in Somerset - could so easily have been the gala weekend but that is the way of the weather. I am inclined to agree that the forecasting leaves a lot to be desired especially in erring on the side of the worst to be on the safe side. If the forecast is not so good then people are less inclined to travel to an event.

Economic factors - there are signs that people are starting to feel the pinch and this does appear to be having some effect though not so easy to quantify - good weather forecast and our camp site was busy for early October !!

Timetable - it is more robust and resilient than before but does seem to be very relaxed - as far as I am concerned jury still out on that one

I will be back next year for the galas at the least if I possibly can DH

 

Yes, but its galas we are talking about, & the main people at galas are enthusiasts Thats what the WSR , & other railways should be catering for, for the few days a year the gala,s are on. Dont get me wrong , the WSR do a great job, but dont let it become too stale.

 

Having been involved with Special Events for nearly 20 years, I long since came to the conclusion that what makes Gala Passengers figures great ahead of good can often be how many "non-enthusiasts" come along, but that is not underestimating the importance of enthusiasts to Galas. I suspect The_Mighty_Kings comment was referring to ordinary traffic or traffic overall - the larger lines reckon enthusiasts make up 10% to 15% maximum of the loadings for the year. However, at a Gala, enthusiasts make up a much larger part of those attending.

In either case, I don't think there is any line that can afford to say "I can do without 10% (even 5%) of my passengers". Margins are slim, investment needs high and what we do tends to financially prove that BR was right - steam and lines with very seasonal traffic aren't viable as purely commercial organisations (except Paignton to Kingswear, of course!)

Coming up with a line-up that "does it" for sufficient numbers of visitors is very difficult. The problem increasingly is that anything less than at least 3 guest locos (even if this means not using some home-based locos) is not seen as good enough, yet haulage and hire can now easily come to 5 figures per loco and some Galas in recent years have cost up to £70,000 in loco and even carriage hire. A friend of mine has asked the question "is the day of the 'Mega-Gala' over?" My reply was to question whether they were ever truly viable and the "brand" had perhaps been established against a background of considerable luck with both weather and being able to deliver what Gala Organisors wanted to do (and find what appealled to sufficient visitors). Affect any of the ingredients for success even slightly, and it seems that visitor numbers and hence income get knocked.

On the NYMR, I reckon (final figures not yet available) were about 800 passengers down at our Gala on last year at around 4,000 for 3 days. However, success can be measured in some ways by various yard-sticks and it has been generally agreed that the event was very enjoyable and ran pretty well as planned except for some need to juggle loco diagrams. That said, these events need a minimum number of passengers to justify the expense and that will ultimately be the question that management of both the WSR and NYMR will have to look at when reviewing this year's results. The KWVR results, with one large and one small (i.e. easier to transport) guest, will be very interesting.

Committing to heavy haulage and hire costs is always going to be a risk and one which Railways will increasingly find themselves having to consider very carefully.

Steven

 

Perhaps the whole movement will be forced to downsize a little and hold fewer events - taking care that the ones which are held measure up in all respects over which the host railway has control - so that a little more of the rarity value is restored & the galas which DO take place get good attendance figs.

 

I'm not sure about fewer events, but I do agree that managing expectations downwards is important. For myself, a (ie one) visitor and an intensive timetable are what I need to attend, and I have attended galas, particularly at the Bluebell, where there aren't any visitors at all. So I suppose that the intensive timetable is really important to me.

I agree with 'Bean-counters' view that a railway cannot afford to turn away visitors whether they are enthusiasts or a casual visitor, but so many of the special events which are put on by the railways seem to be directed at either one or the other market. In addition there are events which really don't have a railway significance at all.

I really don't understand why the railways cannot hold events which appeal to all the markets to which they direct their attentions. The Bluebell, for example, holds 'Family Weekends' each summer and uses the 'three trains' timetable which is its most intensive. Now this ought to appeal to families and the enthusiast and the casual visitor, but there isn't much regard in the advertising to the intensive timetable, so enthusiasts tend to stay away. Similarly, the SVR's Santa weekends are run on an extraordinarily intensive timetable but only as for as Arley. Again, not much publicity and you'd be hard pushed to count the number of enthusiasts around.

There are many weekends in the summer when I would be only too pleased to get out of the house, just to get a way from the walls, but when I look at the on line 'Heritage Railways Events' page I see events which are quite deliberately slanted to another market, so I do something else; not in the house, but not on a railway either!

Regards

 

Two observations, if I may.

I'm sure that part of the problem is that some lines have raised the bar too high to be able to keep to the standards that they themselves have set in the past. Lines like the WSR and NYMR are these days expected to ship in many guest locomotives, whereas the smaller lines can get away with one or two guests because that's the standard for their events. The Llangollen is a good case. They can hire in one or two guests for a "normal" gala and everyone is happy, but, if the gala is a 6880-organised Steel, Steam & Stars branded event, the expectation is so much higher.

Continuing Steven's observations about non-enthusiasts at galas, I do wonder whether some will come to one gala and decide never, ever to go to another one. Your average non-enthusiast won't want to stand on the lineside with a Hi-Viz on and take photos all day. He/she will want to ride the trains. At some galas, the numbers of people wanting to do that can make it a particularly unpleasant experience. Your chances of finding a seat are remote, and your average family with their two toddlers aren't going to want to stand in the corridor of a compartment carriage for an hour or more. Yet this is what regularly happens. Some railways are more interested in putting on a show for the linesiders and, as a result, simply don't put out enough passenger stock for the people who have paid £20+ for their rover tickets to travel in. However, when you read the reviews on forums like this one after the event, they will always say that the event was marvellous, and to prove it, post links to their photopic sites. Most of them won't and don't travel at gala events, probably because they know what it would be like. I have nothing against lineside photographers, but the absence of reviews from the travellers does make these reviews somewhat one-sided.

Now, where's my coat and hard hat?

 

Exactly the point I was trying to make!