York triangle.

Re: York triangle threat?

I think this will come back to bite NR when one of these new centres has a major fault and virtually an entire region goes tits up as a result.

 

Re: York triangle threat?

Large area's of the busiest and most important line's are already controlled by such signalling centre's without any great issue, what risk there is has to be weighed against the considerable benefits especially with the gradual application of ERTMS cab signalling over the coming decades.

Chris

 

Re: York triangle threat?

With this place controlling the entire ECML it only takes someone to nick a bit of cable............... (or it would be a pretty good prank thats for sure!) Definitely putting all your eggs in one basket. And what will happen to all the signallers?

 

Re: York triangle threat?

From what I have been told from sources within the projects, should one centre suffer a major outage and not be able to continue, back up systems are being placed into adjoining centres. ie: If Three Bridges should fail, then Basingstoke could take it up (future centres)). How these will work and not impact on the signallers workloads at these locations has yet to be explained but I'm sure in time will be.

 

Re: York triangle threat?

It doesn't really work like that. There will be a lot of different interlocking sections which have their own power supply (with back-up generators). The ECML wouldn't be run off one power supply or interlocking area but lots of them.

The Signallers in existing boxes will be offered either the opportunity to move to the new ROC, another vacancy within the company or redundancy.

There's no reason for any worry, there are already some very large signalling centres in the country controlling a huge amount of route miles.

 

Re: York triangle threat?

True enough, but sadly the thieving scrotes seem to rip stuff out regardless

 

Re: York triangle threat?

Unfortunately due to other commitments I have been unable to attend either consultation day.

BUT

I have located an e mail address for feedback :- yorktriangle@networkrail.co.uk

Please make your feelings known about this scenario as the City of York have seen "Jobs" and are on board.

They must be advised that the land, whilst undeniably underused, is most certainly not disused, it is operational in status NOT "non operational" and Network Rail have received objections from TOCs under Network Change consultation procedures.. The potential damage to York as a tourism destination if steam activity is made more difficult by requiring locos to make an eighty mile round trip to the nearest turning facility can be avoided provided it is planned in from the start.

Go Get 'Em guys!

 

Re: York triangle threat?

As a former Western Region signalman, I often dream of the return of the manual signal box with its levers, black leaded frame and shiny floors not to mention the necessary register to log every bell code. In winter especially during a winters night, we would relax in our cosy chair huddled up to a coal fire and life was bliss made even more magical with the passing of a steam loco on an overnight sleeper. At Taunton, over a distance of a couple of miles we had (from West to North) Silk Mill Crossing, Taunton West Junction, Taunton West Station (my box) and Taunton West Loop, Taunton East Junction and Taunton East Loop. Unbelievable in this day and age but magical nonetheless.

That's when a signalman's job was a pleasure and a joyl

Bliss but on for dreams now.

Nick

 

Re: York triangle threat?

Done...

 

Re: York triangle threat?

Thanks guys - the chat is all very interesting - but we need to keep up the pressure on this one.

It looks as if the York planners don't have an application yet - so I'll make enquiries there too

 

Re: York triangle threat?

York City Planners email address here

planning.enquiries@york.gov.uk

I don't think there is a formal application yet - but the City are well aware of the proposal - the planners need to be aware that the land may be underused, but it is not unused, or non operational, that DBS and WCRC have objected under Network Change procedures, and that tourism and heritage in york could be severely compromised if this scheme removes the only facility to turn locos within a forty mile radius

My emails to the planners and to NR herewith

 

Re: York triangle threat?

If a new turntable is the solution I wonder if, rather than relocating an existing table, there is an opportunity here for todays engineers and architects to re-address the railway 'turning problem'. Perhaps they would come up with the railway equivalent of the Falkirk Wheel - Falkirk Wheel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Re: York triangle threat?

Miff, a 'table or triangle are about as simple as it gets. Why risk anything complex that can/will go wrong? I can see your thinking, but the KISS principle works for me, and I'm a professional Engineer

 

Re: York triangle threat?

Yes - the Engineer's utilitarian view. I also work in engineering and generally subscribe to KISS too. But it is good to do something completely different once in a while and a big new development can offer the opportunity (although I'd accept maybe this development isn't big enough). Any architects care to comment?

 

Re: York triangle threat?

Agreed but there are a lot of areas that cannot be totally automated. There are areas that have depots with regular booked and non booked shunts. These will have to be manually worked into the system as well as track/signalling maintenance line blockages. Yes, there will be a lot of work taken off the signallers with ARS but by no means will it be sit back and drink tea. That's without the "taking on other regions work due to system failure".

 

Re: York triangle threat?

Those sending letters should consider using proper figures to back up their argument. We need to total the number of excursions that have started/ended in York that required use of the triangle, as well as an actual figure of how many times it was used last year by steam. Then you could say how many people the average excursion brings to York and how important that is for the city's economy, especially shops and businesses outside the station as well as the NRM.