You've won The Euros

Oh come now! Can I not dream a little dream of my own without it being quashed so readily?

I haven't asked for the wholesale rebuilding of Gresley locos to Thompson conditions or backdating the A1 and A2 now, after all…

 

Didnt realise Id provoke so much debate when I started this! Intresting reading what people would do though, loving the Leader debate, nice to know Mr Bulleid can still cause a stir nearly 70 years on!

 

Of course you're entitled to dream. I'm just warning you of the consequences should your dream become a reality.

 

Mr. who?

 

Mr Bulleid! Fell into the trap I had to remind my old English teacher of!

 

hi,
stage 3 to be added to mine if i have any money out of that 156 million left after stage 1 and 2.
1. I would build a brand new LNER hush hush engine.
2. I would also restore all the West somerset railways vintage coaches and build a missing great western engine gwr bulldog engine.

thats it.

 

Would you also believe I got into trouble for spelling O.V.S 'surname wrong in primary School too? Was kept in for a breaktime to write out 'I before E except after C ' Went home that night with a letter telling my parents why I'd been 'kept in'. The following day was great took a book in with references to Mr BULLEID, My Dad spoke to the Head and my teacher had to apologise to me! 11 years old at the time and she'd picked on me all year too, How the mighty are fallen!

 

Whatever one may think of Bulleid as a designer he must have been a past master at the internal politicking... Merchant Navy as a mixed traffic loco, Leader when they wanted a tank engine equivalent of a Q1... How on earth did he talk his way into those things?

 

Well, he must have had the gift of the gab!

But what I find interesting is the specification drift. In late 1944 both Bulleid and Richards seemed to think another 25 Q1s would be sufficient ( the Q1 had a good reputation for fast running if required, so was suitable for passenger use). Only the issue of running in reverse divided them. If the CME had fully concentrated on the duplicated controls, with maybe a modified tender, they could have been a very successful mixed traffic solution to the problems in the West Country.

But instead, when the Traffic Manager finally gave a specification, it called for something with the power of a Pacific! That specification was unrealistic with regards the traffic on offer. For example, 325 tons to Ilfracombe is ten coaches! 256 tons beyond Okehampton is eight coaches but, for example, the platform at Padstow was only six coaches long. The 450 tons requirement to Waterloo means 14 coaches even though the platforms there could only deal with 11 - 13 coaches! And in any case, if there was really a traffic requirement for 14 coach trains from Waterloo as far out as Brookwood, using EMUs would be a much better solution, tried and tested, without limitations on range, saving the length of an engine, and double-ended by default!

I wonder how much the specification came from Richards, and how much from Bulleid? It's clear that once the design office settled on the double-bogie concept, they were struggling with weight. Ultimately the Leader came out at 150 tons (by contrast, an original West Country was only 140 tons). I wonder if the cart came before the horse: once they realised the new loco would weigh about the same as a Pacific, they wrote a specification for Pacific levels of performance, even though an 80 ton class 4 tank engine basically similar to a Fairburn or Standard was all that was needed. Ultimately of course Brighton works obliged with the different designs of P4 tank, but they reached the West Country about 15 years too late.

Tom

 

A trifle unfair…but we won't turn this debate into an extension of previous threads.

 

Well, people have been saying it would be nice to do 1 and/or 2 but it's unlikely to happen, the railway needs to spend the money it does have on itself. And by "Extend as far as possible on the Tenbury line" I meant as far as you can go before someone has built on it which I think is about Newnham Bridge in reality but would be nice to get to Tenbury.
Yes, a GWR railcar would be lovely.

 

An outside cylinder 2-6-2T or 2-6-4T based on Q1 components might have been a useful bit of kit. Don't know if weight would have been a problem.

As an example of one of the many places where BR missed an opportunity a pair of the single ended units plus a strengthening coach might be interesting.

 

With all that money available, from your local station you could pay a visit to every preserved line that has a main line connection in your own train. Being a cheap skate, you'd have your own class 153 unit. Splash the cash though and you could have the train TnT with locos of your choice and the train consisting of a first class saloon plus sleeping, kitchen and dining cars so you, your friends & family could undertake this tour in comfort.
Being altruistic; where possible build an elevated viewing gallery in all shed areas so that visitors may see all locos, not just those in service at the time of your visit. By being elevated it would keep spectators clear of running lines and work areas. Access to the galleries would (dependent on location circumstances) be by slope or lift so that the disabled don't miss out.

 

Oooookay! If the NRM, the Beet family or the Bluebell Railway fail to sell any the loco's I've mentioned in my 1st post. Then I will either put money, or buy an engine that is currently at Llangollen. Maybe the Pannier Tank 7754.

 

I'm still adding to mine - SVR hostel accommodation at all stations. A couple of railway cottages, a la 'Oh Dr Beeching' at Arley would look grand, though I recall planning permission for a permanent structure at Hampton Loade was refused.

Patrick

 

Hmm... What a question.

My dream project sparked by an influx of cash would be as follows.

1. A new small to medium sized depot built on land almost opposite the NRM at Shildon. Local people and companies employed to create a viable and profitable long term business in retaining skills and overhauling engines. Mr Riley to be a consultant and partner in the venture (especially as he is needing new depot space) and purpose built would be ideal.
2. Some engines can be brought under the newly private North Eastern Railway, a Black Hat company. The J21 65033, A2 60532 would be the first ones bought and brought under the banner with NELPG engines to follow, even if they retain custodianship - meaning 62005, 63395, 69023, and the J27 join the ranks. 61264 would be another group bought with the engine returned to their custodianship. No doubt Rileys 45407, 44871 would be visitors.
3. Controversially a new A1 would be built. One where the plate in the boiler is where it should be, where the boiler isnt welded either and should be better steaming. Basically a replica of Saint Mungo. 60164, Northern Star in British Railways Darlington Apple Green lined and drawn out in black and white with a BR Late Crest.
4. New build tank engines would also feature a G5 and L4 - an L1 design but with larger wheels, air brake and electric lighting. There would be 2, maybe 3.
5. Final new build would be a B16. Probably a B16/3, again like the L1, it would become a B16/4 as improvements needed for operation today would be made.
6. Diesels. Some would be needed to work ECS moves or for hire out. A 37/4, or class 50 or two might be added to the fleet, adorned in NER Black, with NER large emblem on bodyside. Id buy 66044 too but leave that as it is. The odd shunter for the depot wouldnt go amiss so an 08 is needed too.
7. Weardale would be bought from BARs and services from Stanhope to Shildon introduced. Work needed for Wolsingham station and areas to pass trains. Seek co-operation with Durham County Council, area partnerships and the lottery itself for funding to support viable activities to bring desitnations for the passengers to go to. Weardale to be a heritage railway that does become self reliant. Line to be upgraded for better speeds. Witton-le-Wear crossing to become automatic. The line to be done up as a Regional railways line in the 1990s. Its not accurate, just some nice signs and stations tarted up. Fits with traction and stock available, while steam can still run as it did. Means line is different from others in the sector and joe public would still be happy with the venue.
8. Funds given to Wensleydale to allow development. Money for station at Northallerton, shed at Leeming Bar and track to get to Aysgarth.
9. Rolling stock - a new build coach would be designed. The Mk. Zero. Basically a new designed coach thats made to look older. Maybe celestory in appearance, or like Gresley semi-comparment or suburban stock. Something thats a mock old looking design, but gives fuctionality and good operation for the railway, both mainline and preserved. Some stock for the weardale operation would be needed too.
10. Id buy the odd unit. The service to Darlington could be handed over to a shuttle from Bishop Auckland. A 142 or two could do it, and a 156 and 158 to join that little perserved sector later.

I dare say that would make a significant dent in my winnings, but then it would make a massive difference to the areas that need that injection of cash and development. If only it wasnt a dream!

 

OK. Here’s mine.
Buy the old Station building at Llynclys and the land that links the two parts of the Cambrian operation and move back to the UK. Put back the link to allow trains to run. Upgrade the Oswestry – Llynclys line to operational status. Purchase a Manor class loco and a futher rake of coaches to allow immediate operation of services.
Build a replica goods shed in the garden of the house and inside fit it out as a loco restoration space and machine shop. Reinstate the platform outside the house as my own personal platform and have my own personal saloon which could be attached to any train. Restore an industrial loco to pull the saloon which can be used on my daily commute to Oswestry, see later. Plus have a small diesel railcar based on the Galloping Goose as a back-up.
Buy what is left of Oswestry works and rebuild a working heritage workshop with skilled local people in real engineering jobs. This would be capable of overhauling up to Class 8 steam loco and have a carriage work shop for wooden bodied rolling stock. I would work in the machine shop as a fitter machinist.
Collect together all surviving Cambrian coaches and wagons and restore what is possible
One of the works projects would be to build a replica Cambrian Sharp Stewart 4-4-0 tender loco.
Build a station at Weston Wharf with a station building that serves as an outlet for the brewery next door (Stonehouse Brewery) and install a bar with hand pulled real ales.
Restore the missing link of the Shropshire Union Canal through Pant.
That would take care of the first 10 years.

 

With those euro millions, I suggest we need to invest in the future of mainline steam.

I think nobody has mentioned the 5AT . With money no object, something like that would be worth a punt. Say £15M to complete the design and component testing work and build a prototype. Possibly £5M to run extensive trials and convince the powers concerned to accept the idea and allow 125mph running (to fit in better with everyday speeds of service trains on NR). Then maybe £5M a pop to build a small fleet of production models, with the inevitable mistakes revealed during the prototype testing sorted out.

The many comments above on "Leader" are interesting; but if an engine on those lines could be made successful, we are left with the snag that it's a steam loco that looks nothing like one. What would its market be? A 5AT-derived loco on the other hand could easily be made to look very traditional indeed, and would be ideal for the steam rail tour market.

Then the money still left could go to the worthy causes others have mentioned, like lots of stock sheds on preserved lines to keep heritage items out of the weather.

 

Believe me, the 'Leader' would probably market itself if it ever gets a second chance... I'd also dust off the Tavern Cars, too.