You've won The Euros

a class 5 at 125mph.... the mind boggles...

 

If you stop and think about it, how about setting up a new build coach factory making pregrouping coaches, so what would i do, build a underframe 56ft , suitable as a base for any design of coach with stock bogies based on the southern design of bogie but with different axle box covers , so what would i build first a run of 15 SECR non coridoor coaches and several birdcage brakes, all to the original drawings, send 5 coaches to the isle of wight , 3 to the KESR ,4 to the Bluebell, and a 3 car rake, 2 brakes ,1 saloon, to the Mhr, painted in BR crimson,
then using the same underframe a couple of tavern cars and several southern coaches

 

I think bulk production of "common items" such as suitable coach underframes etc is a very good idea and possibly something that will become not just economically viable but perhaps a necessity if heritage railways are to continue to prosper. After all, there always seems to be more coach bodies surviving than coach underframes (for various practical & economic reasons ) so there is a need for these already in some cases. There is the major issue of storing and maintaining such stock of course, which is why the Bluebell is sensibly pushing its "undercover" campaign now that East Grinstead is reached and operating. A case of "like what you have, rather than have what you like." I believe the GWSR is now also investigating a carriage storage facility at Winchcombe now that the carriage restoration & finishing shop is complete and working very well as evinced from their Blog.
Regarding winning the Euro lottery, it would seem that the owner(s) of Spitfire Mk1 N3200 at Duxford were clearly well equipped with money - the result is a completely rebuilt Mk1 which looked and sounded perfect on the Channel 4 programme I've just seen. It got a bit dusty in our room I think as something was irritating my eyes. Money so well spent, thank you.

 

£111m this week chaps!

 

The thing is with building something pre-grouping en mass is that it will have very little places where it can really be authentically. I think we're all looking a little too far back, how about some coaches from the big four - would be a lot more versatile. Modernising designs as the A1 trust do but for coaches would be a good start, and looking at how things like under frames could be standardised, then having a selection of 4-8 bodies to plonk on top which would be aesthetically different but share common features. Then all the ex-GWR railways could club together and pay for a production run of some GWR coaches using the standard under frame and their own tops, same with ex-LMS etc.

As for Carriage protection facilities - definitely! There are indeed now proper plans for a proper redevelopment of Winchcombe yard including a shed to store - umm, actually I'm not sure what it's supposed to store, I'll find out. Hopefully the running rakes, but given that no trains start or terminate at Winchcombe (and hopefully never will again) some people have raised eyebrows. hopefully room for our nice restored wagons as well. Some people seemed to think the main reason we've ignored any of the more heritage coaches is simply no where to store them under cover, once we've got some storage maybe we will, although by that time it might be too late, and we'll have to kick start this new build carriage process! Oh well, we'll see what happens, could be anything...

 

thats in part what i meant, using a stock 56ft underframe and jigs for most body parts, structually there should be very little difference between any big 4 coach, separate window and door mouldings to fit of course, but the framework should be fairly common to all, you would batch build things like window moundings door frames interiour framework ,call it flat pack coach building if you like

 

You could even sneak in a cheap plywood 'Leader' lookalike coach... At the end of the day, everyone will disagree on what should be built until someone stumps up the cash. And then all hell breaks loose with howls of derision for whatever choice of locomotive is made. However, heritage outline carriages built to modern frame spec would probably be a better investment, particularly as passengers can't ride on a '5AT' footplate on the mainline (or on a heritage line for that matter), even if it does 125mph. As things currently stand, such a move would help avert any impending 'carriage crisis'.

 

Could be a good point about a need for "heritage" carriages with modern under frames and running gear.

However, the thing about 125mph as a target speed is that it would deal with the squeeze on mainline paths; a busier and faster national network is going to have fewer and fewer routes where paths can be found for 75 mph steam specials. There is also the point that a completely modern new-design steam loco as envisaged by Porta, Wardale et al would have a reduced need for hard, dirty work at unsocial hours by our support crews, with their often dwindling and ageing memberships.

Pity none of us is going to win those Euro millions. Wonder, though, if there are any multi-millionaire enthusiasts out there who are browsing this thread in a search for inspiration? Seems a much more likely scenario ...

 

Things like rocking grates, hopper ashpans, self cleaning smokeboxes go a long way to reducing the prep and disposal times, no steam engine will ever get persision to run at 125mph, but we may one day see 90mph running, with a 10 mhp margin either way for operational reasons, ie you time the tour for 80 mph, but the train can run up to 100 stock allowing, if you need to get it out of section etc, or if the path allows a better run with less inpact on sceduled services.
As regards building new underframes bogies and bodies, for heritage coaches, the use of things such as roller bearings, and the fact that its all new would reduce the maintaince needed for heritage railways plus the fact that your building new, means spares such as vac cylinders or air braking equipment can be off the shelf or exchange, plus PA systems, wiring can be done in a far more user friendly way, ie, truncked and tracable for fault finding,

 

Regarding "no steam engine will ever get permission to run at 125mph": that is undoubtedly true of existing heritage locomotives. However the engineers in the 5AT group were very confident of securing authorisation for their design to run at 125 mph on test, and 112 mph in everyday service. The snag is, it would be a new bit of kit and would have to go through the same rigorous testing and certification procedures as any new diesel or electric design. Hence the very high price tag.

 

But as I said, its pointless having a 125mph locomotive if you don't have the certified carriages to put behind it. Unless someone is interested in buying a fleet of Mk. 3 carriages, I think this would be beyond the scope of 'grandfather rights' for the Mk. 1 fleet.

 

It might look like a class 5, but that is where the similarity ends. I could have gone for it but that would have been rather predictable and if I was building a new design I would want something better. Though that is not saying that the 5AT is not a very interesting machine. I would want more adhesion and a higher nominal T.E. plus the ability to deliver in excess of 4000ihp continuously if required.

 

Ummm...how do you know that???


Keith

 

Err .. I was about to tell you, but my crystal ball just got struck by lightning ..

 

Interesting thought. I wonder how one would go about marketing one's line to billionaires...

 

Dear Mr Hoskins............

 

unlikely to get a reply if you do

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Hosking

 

I wonder what he does with all the begging letters....?

 

use them to light up the engines??

 

Probably not worth approaching Mr Hosking - surely he's very well acquainted with the whole steam and preservation scene and long ago decided what he thinks worth supporting.

The trick would be to find that newly created multi-millionaire who's just retired from making their money and is casting about for a new hobby. Any ideas?

On the 5AT, and in reply to those who are pushing for new carriages in preference to that, I don't necessarily disagree. However this thread is about spending oodles of money. If someone was able to commit the £10 to 20 million that a 5AT or similar would probably cost, I'm sure that buying a rake of recently retired Mk3 coaches (and converting one to a generator vehicle to satisfy all that electrical demand) would not be a show-stopper. Rather more difficult might be the fact that steam enthusiasts like carriages with opening windows. I suspect that if the goal of really fast steam was ever achieved, the authorities would not wear any opening windows on the train for safety reasons (and they'd also interfere with the streamlining, and hence performance).

A good answer might be to put microphones on the loco and wire the resulting audio feed into loudspeakers in each carriage. And actually that might not be such a bad idea for existing 75mph steam specials ... and these days could something like that be achieved wirelessly, maybe by putting a real-time audio track on to the internet that punters on the train could access by mobile phone using 3G or wifi?

Unless one is right at the front, noise from the steam loco can be surprisingly muted or drowned by wind noise, passing diesels, road traffic etc. People might be willing to pay a small surcharge to get something that would reliably let them feel closer to the action. How about it, RTC, Steam Dreams and the rest?