6233 Duchess of Sutherland . Crimson lake , LMS Black or BR Green ?

Was wartime black cheaper than LMS red or was the adoption of black mainly for the sake of the appearance of austerity? And can someone please tell me the difference(s) between the LMS and BR reds? Were they different shades? Was the lining different?

 

Black is a cheaper colour to apply than Crimson Lake (the correct name for LMS red), especially if no lining is involved. The paint itself is cheaper as both pigments and mixing are less involved.

Rumour says that the two shades of red were not the same, the BR version being darker than the LMS. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference, personally. There were two types of lining applied to the pacifics in BR days: with the lining at the edges of the panels, similar to the LMS style; and with the lining inset, similar to the green/GWR style engines. Both versions for red used yellow and black lining. The inset lining never looked right and was quickly dispensed with, all red engines reverting the edge lining.

Generally, the LMS lined its red engines, including the Princesses, with yellow and black lines, but for the Coronations used gold and black, with a very thin red line between them.

 

All colours in rotation to stop argument and provide a true bit of variety (but I'd like to see it in late BR crest one day).

 

With yellow stripe on the cab?

 

Never had stripes.

 

Didn't know that, but again its somthing different. A bit like 46203 never carrying BR Crimson, up until its return to steam in '89

 

Would stop her going South of Crewe if she did.......

 

Would make sense if she did then... she's only been down the southern WCML on the odd occasion..

 

Don't we know it.......

 

Happy to say that I've now done about 78 per cent of the WCML behind 46233 in both directions. All I have left is Rugby-Crewe and Motherwell-Glasgow... Anyway, would be intersting to see a yellow stripe again one day.

 

Same for Galatea.. a Yellow stripe on that maroon cab would be nice.
Thats another one that seems a bit shy of the south..I think closest so far it's made is Ipswich.. and that was it's first outing.

A bit of Tangmere on the CME and Galatea down 'ere would be nice.. it'd pull more than a wheel spinny Bulleid any day too.

 

Doubt it... If given the trains 34067 is given on a regular basis (loads verging on Class 8 power on routes that weren't necessarily in mind for that sort of output when designed), then you'll see the difference. It might even become a 'wheel spinny' thing itself, just like the 'Princess Coronation' that spent two hours spinning at Liverpool (I think- O S Nock referred to it in any case)...

 

Don't exaggerate.

It was only one hour!

 

Care to elaborate more?

 

The exit from Lime St station is up over one mile of 1 in 93, with a short section of 1 in 83 at the bottom. It isn't a good place to start a heavy train. Ossie Nock recorded that one of these engines slipped violently for over an hour in attempting to get its train out of the platform. I can't recall any other details.

 

I just find it hard in the good old days of steam that:

1. There wasn't anything there to assist
2. That anyone would happily allow a loco to struggle around Liverpool (which is undoubtably a busy station)
3. The impact of it would be accepted when the solutions (drop off a coach or two, or get a pilot) would be so obvious.

I know in the old days penalty payments were unheard of, but the managers official report "across my desk by morning" would be.

 

Press like hyperbole... I seem to recall in one of your previous posts back in June on the issue that the story made Railway Magazine in 1960, not sure whether it was April 1960 and passing through Fudge Junction, though. Winkworth quoted it, too.

All the fun at Stanier's slippery fair can be found in this thread:

https://www.national-preservation.com/threads/just-found-this-footage.282627

 

Very well remembered, Bulleid Pacific.

I thought it sounded familiar...

ADB968008 - that's what the inestimable Mr Nock reported. I wasn't there; I didn't see it. But if it happened, there must have been something seriously wrong with either the engine or driver. These engines frequently worked out of Lime Street, so I doubt this was a normal situation.

 

Generally, trains weren't banked out of Lime Street. The engine at the stop block end would follow the train out a few feet behind it and then stop at the platform starter. I know people will doubt this, but I not only saw it many times as a kid, but I did work at Edge Hill depot for a while. It was still normal practice after the end of steam. There was some discussion of it one the EM Lime Street thread, about Page 20 - 25, I think, http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/33141-lime-street-station/?&hl=+lime +street +station&fromsearch=1. It can just be seen in this YouTube link from about 1.50.:

This would not, of course, prevent it assisting the train to leave, but might not have been behind the train to start with.