West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Hmmm.

Well, it's only a 12% or so alcohol solution, so it wouldn't react so very differently from water, perhaps, although the alcohol would be driven off preferentially once the liquid boiled.

I don't see why the vapour shouldn't condense normally but I can see a few folk sniffing the air around the loco....

One would, of course, be a bit concerned about the driver and fireman's ability to work to the rules and regulations given the state of the atmosphere around the loco....

Robin

 

I think the main issue would be maintaining a slightly alkaline pH inside the boiler when you dump in a load of what is basically a weak acid...

Tom

 

Like it or not, a fundamental truth is that 4561 is just a bit too small for the core WSR train service these days.

Starting on it rather than Ditcheat Manor was a poor choice, but we are where we are, and tidying up the mess will require some hard choices from places it would have been better we were not.

Robin

 

I'd agree with most of that, except I am not sure that there is much evidence to say the general public prefer big locos. I think the evidence is rather that they prefer named locos, but since on most railways, named locos tend to be big, people have assumed that locos are popular because they are big, which isn't necessarily true - they might be popular because they are named.

What I would say in terms of small engine popularity is that they tend to be less intimidating for getting people onto the footplate during layovers, especially for families with young children. Getting a small child onto a footplate may sow a seed of enthusiasm that lasts a lifetime, but I wouldn't want to do it on a 9F or Bulleid pacific.

As regards cost, my belief is that the optimum for heritage line use is a narrow firebox loco that is marginally too big for the job in hand, rather than marginally too small. If you have to work a loco very hard to get the job done, you tend to waste more coal unburnt up the chimney than you do on a slightly too big loco burning on the grate. I'm also pretty certain that if you really work a loco hard for long periods, you pay for it in reduced mileage between overhauls, which is equivalent to extra cost per mile. It's not for nothing that it is widely held that BR 80xxx tanks are pretty close to optimal traffic locos for most larger preserved railways with decent gradients. An Ivatt class 2 would be ideal for most flatter lines, though sadly they come unnamed and only in any colour you like so long as it is black.

Tom

 

This argument is pure enthusiasts "big choo-choophilia" again I fear. Someone I know, who is a board member of a standard gauge line, is of the opinion that only Flying Scotsman or Tornado really register with the general public. Not an argument likely to appeal down Zummerset I suspect!

PH

 

I'll take issue with you on the footplate size for children - as small kids, both of mine would shy away from a footplate. However, if there was enough space that they didn't feel they were going to be close to the firebox, they were willing to investigate.

 

A 2MT will handle the equivalent of five bogies (perhaps corresponding to 4 Mk 1s) up 1 in 68 with an astonishing economy of coal (admittedly "best Welsh") and water. We both know there is a picture of one of these heading a "Trio C" set plus 3 Maunsell corridors out of Horsted Keynes towards East Grinstead in the early fifties. It is a pity the visit of LT 150 could not happen but the 2MT would have won easily in terms of crew comfort and ease of P&D.

The other pity is that "big choo-chooism seems to have been as rampant fifty years ago as today and only four survived

Paul

 

Regarding names, I understand at least one railway is known for applying names to locos which ran previously only with numbers. Presumably this policy has worked, as that railway is still running.

 

Some interesting points being raised.
I'd say public access to the footplate is far easier on a big loco. It's a bit cramped on a Small Prairie.
Can't answer the question about 4561 as I've never fired it. But if you are going to consume 800 plus gallons of water over the 20 miles then it's going to be a potential problem if you hit any sort of delay and can't take water. The bigger tanks on 5542 provide a reasonable reserve for most eventualities.
Named engines, I'd say bigger named tender engines going smokebox first are probably preferred by most passengers as it's what they expect a steam loco to look like.

 

Not sure that these generalisations about what "normals" do/don't like hold true.

A business like run with a smaller loco may impress some more than an uninspiring amble with an oversized namer.
Yes the latter is possibly more casually impressive to look and photograph but that is only part of the story.

Size is not the most important thing for everybody!

 

I think it is age-dependent - my experience is that much younger than about four is a problem anyway, but older than that is OK. On Friday, we had an entire primary school class in small groups (I'd estimate probably aged about 7-8ish) to experience the footplate on "Bluebell" without any problems, and you don't get much smaller than that. The issue I tend to find is with very big locos (hence why I cited a 9F) that you have to climb up into, even from platform level. Very hard to convince young children to go up onto one of them, even though the footplate is quite large when you get there.

Which I think was why on the Bluebell we always ran the Dukedog with the nameplates that it was allocated, but never carried in service, even though it tended to upset the purists.

Define "big" though. In my experience, you start getting comments along the lines of "it's huge" round about a Maunsell U class, after which there are diminishing returns on the impressiveness vs cost equation. In GWR terms, I suspect most normal (i.e. non-enthusiast) visitors would consider both a Castle and a Manor as "huge" engines (especially if they didn't see them side by side) but one is likely to be a considerably cheaper proposition to maintain and operate!

Tom

 

Copied from Dinmore Manor Locomotive Ltd Facebook page:

Hot off the press: Announced this afternoon at the DMLL AGM. Agreement in principle reached with the West Somerset Railway for the hire of 7820 for a four month period starting in June 2017. Subject to contract and usual caveats regarding availability. More news when it's available.

 

Yes yes double headed manors please

 

Could some kind person link next year's WSR diesel gala thread here, can't find it. Thanks

 

There isn't one yet (thread, that is!).

 

Oh yes there is.....

Robin

 

What about this one?

https://www.national-preservation.c...gala-friday-9th-sunday-11th-june-2017.786786/

Tom

 

Sorry - I must have dozed off...........!

 

T

Thats the one, thanks

 

When does 5542 go back. Need a ride behind before it does.